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Death of American Twins, Liberty and Freedom
Self

Posted on 11/25/2002 3:27:05 PM PST by Old philosopher

Today, November 25, 2002, with the signature of George W. Bush creating the Department of Homeland Security, a milestone in the History of our great country was marked by the death of the Twin Pillars of our society, Freedom and Liberty.

The fight to keep alive these two foundations of our Nation has been a long and arduous one. The mercilous attacks on them have come from politicians on both sides of the aisle in their ever continuing grab for more and more power. Regardless of popular support for the twins, the political class has long sought to bring about their demise. In a "Bi-Partisan" effort both houses of Congress have voted to destroy the most important rights of the People, only a very few of the Congress opposed the death of these important twins.

Those of us who have known these twins for a long time will be very much saddened by their death, and those who have only known them briefly will soon learn how important they were to the Welfare and Security of our Great Country. With the death of Liberty and Freedom it will only be a short time until the Populace of this country will be living under a Dictatorship, controlled by an "Elite" class of politicians who will dictate every facet of our lives.

Requiem In Pacet!


TOPICS: Announcements; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Your Opinion/Questions
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To: Reagan Man
I suggest you get your head out of the 18th century and join the 21st century.

Guess they never taught you truth does not change, freedom is still worth dying for, and security is for pets, not people, in that government youth training center (public school) where you got your education. You've turned out exactly the way they planned.

(You many not have gone to public school, but your views are the same as those who have been subject to that government mind-bending.)

I am fully aware of incredible evil that prevails in the world in this day, but I am also aware the bunch of clowns in Washington who cannot get three things in a row right are only going to cause more trouble if given more power.

What is the nearest Muslim country to the United States? What is the nearest Muslim country to Russia? Which country, the United States or Russia has the best intelligence gathering technology? Which country has suffered the greatest domestic terrorist attack to date?

The Homeland Security Boondogle is not going to do one thing to eliminate terrorism or even stop a single terrorist attack.

Hank

21 posted on 11/25/2002 5:35:44 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
I would rather take my chances with the terrorists . . .

I'll gladly buy you one-way airfare to Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Sudan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, or Indonesia if you promise to stay there.

22 posted on 11/25/2002 5:36:19 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Reagan Man
The new Homeland Security Department is an effort to make certain aspects of the federal bureaucracy operate in a more efficient and effective manner.

I'm originally from Missouri, so they'll have to Show Me.

This is one of the few mergers we are going to see where a merger results in the INCREASE in the number of employees. By this measurement alone I don't think we are going to see a more efficient government. Only if Bush uses the power that he lobbied for, to reward merit and to cast aside standard government pay scales and HR procedures, can he actually make this more efficient by cutting those who are more focused on saving their jobs rather than serving their country.

Furthermore the scope of DoHS isn't covering the FBI or the CIA. By this measurement Homeland Security isn't going to be as efficient as it can be. If these two entities can function separately as well as separate from DoHS, why did we have to merge the others?

There is no evidence that by protecting and defending the American people from acts of terrorism, President Bush and his administration has shown a desire to damage the Constitutional rights of American's [sic].

If we are going to reward illegals who cross our borders to siphon on our welfare state via amnesty, work programs, etc., then the Constitutional rights of Americans are damaged by dilution. It doesn't mean as much to be a citizen if noncitizens receive benefits, as would be the case if the Mexican government has its way.

We got nailed because we have too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Too many bureaucrats prevented the FBI from connecting Phoenix to Moussaoui. Not enough personnel are available to lock down our borders while allowing legitimate commerice to transact. John Walker Lindh can get into Al Qaeda [sp?] but we don't have field personnel in the list of Bin Laden's best friends?

This is only going to work if we cut off, say, half the heads of the agencies and apply the payroll to more operatives. The structure needs to flatten, and the personnel need to be made accountable for their actions. If someone in the INS, e.g., doesn't perform their duties, then they should be let go or offered early retirement.

Thanks for tolerating the babble :)

23 posted on 11/25/2002 5:36:31 PM PST by CanisMajor2002
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To: Reagan Man
Like all "Liberals" whether in the closet or out, when you can not argue with logic you resort to personal insults. This is the typical tactics of morons. If the shoe fits wear it!
24 posted on 11/25/2002 5:41:35 PM PST by Old philosopher
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To: Hank Kerchief

Perhaps you would be happier over at www.anarcho-taliban-republic.com.

25 posted on 11/25/2002 5:42:22 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Tench_Coxe
What are you, a communist?

Well, no, but Putin does seem to be doing a better job protecting Russia from terrorism then Bush is protecting the US, I mean, if you go by the numbers, and they have Muslim countries on their border, and the nearest one to us is thousands of miles away.

What do you think? Do you think Russian borders are more secure than ours? Think that could make any difference?

Hank

26 posted on 11/25/2002 5:43:30 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Old philosopher
I'll gladly buy you one-way airfare to Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Sudan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, or Indonesia if you promise to stay there, too.

Is it a deal?

27 posted on 11/25/2002 5:44:13 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Lizavetta
I too am very concerned about Hillary Rotten, or another liberal like her becoming president one day. Hopefully it won't happen. We'll cross that bridge if and when it does happen.

There is nothing in my reading of the final summary version of the Homeland Security Act, that I see as a problem. But I will admit to never trusting any liberal, under any circumstance, whatsoever. I say, no matter whose in charge, we must always remain vigilant. I just don't think getting paranoid and running around like chicken little, is the best way to use one's energy and to advance one's political beliefs.

28 posted on 11/25/2002 5:44:30 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Reagan Man
Well said.
29 posted on 11/25/2002 5:45:30 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Old philosopher
With the govenment tracking your every move, you will soon be as enslaved as the Germans were under Hitler, or the Russians were under the Communists.

...As I said earlier, learn a little History before you start to flame me for speaking the truth.

And, as I said earlier, some seniors think wisdom automatically comes with old age.

Some seniors are wise, some drool.

In my experience, more drool than are wise, and this thread proves it.

30 posted on 11/25/2002 5:48:39 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: Hank Kerchief
>>> ... freedom is still worth dying for...

I know all about freedom and don't need any preaching from the likes of you.

You'd already proven yourself a political malcontent, now we know you're a social misfit too. Now show us what a wild-eyed militant you can be and you've completed the trifecta.

For someone who professes so much knowledge, so far all I've seen is a blatherer. A real public fool.

31 posted on 11/25/2002 5:54:42 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Old philosopher
You must be one of those 'we're in the awkward stage' loons, respectfully.
32 posted on 11/25/2002 5:57:09 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Reagan Man
The Salon Bolsheviki can only feign outrage. If any of them really believed the nonsense they spout, we'd be seeing them on the evening news rather than reading their bravado drivel here.
33 posted on 11/25/2002 5:59:45 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: CanisMajor2002
>>>Thanks for tolerating the babble :)

Hey, no problem.

I happen to agree with you about the border crossing and illegal immigration problem we face today. I think the HSA will address this specific problem. I just don't know how seriously or to what degree the feds are willing to go. Something must be done to cut off border crssoings by illegal aliens. I would support President Bush placing some significant military presence on the borders, with both Mexico and Canada. At least until, a the "new" border/transportation force can be gotten up to speed.

34 posted on 11/25/2002 6:04:11 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Cultural Jihad
The Salon Bolsheviki can only feign outrage. If any of them really believed the nonsense they spout, we'd be seeing them on the evening news rather than reading their bravado drivel here.

Well, they certainly wouldn't spend another day in this hellhole of a country. They'd be pulling up stakes and taking the next plane to freedom . . . somewhere . . . . anywhere.

35 posted on 11/25/2002 6:09:04 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Reagan Man
It doesn't go after law abiding citizens.

They never do.

36 posted on 11/25/2002 6:09:55 PM PST by Teacher317
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To: Old philosopher
I was very civil in my original reply to you at RE:#3, Old Fart. But after you started comparing America to nazi germany and insulting my intelligence, I figured you didn't want to engage in any civil debate. And you know what, I was right!

You're just another political malcontent and social misfit, a little older, but just as stupid!

37 posted on 11/25/2002 6:12:20 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Teacher317; Kevin Curry

38 posted on 11/25/2002 6:12:45 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
I think they've over estimated their relevent importance in the world and come on FR to bully people. Sad, but true.
39 posted on 11/25/2002 6:17:10 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: Kevin Curry

The Free State Project has found their Shangri Blah in non-statist Somalia. (notice the dearth of ideologues flocking to their shores)

40 posted on 11/25/2002 6:20:38 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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