Up in smoke: Cigarettes are no cash cow for N.Y.

Binghamton (NY) Press and Sun-Bulletin ^ | 11/25/02 | YANCEY ROY AND WASIM AHMAD

[Phantom Lord]

As predicted by many many people on FR, in NY, and across the country, NYs assault on the pocketbook of smokers has caused smokers to buy their smokes outside of NY.

I am from NY and now live in NC. I grew up a few minutes from the PA border and all of the smokers in my family up there travel to Smokin Joe's in PA for their smokes. And when they travel down here to visit they load up on smokes in Virgina on their way home.

My wifes family lives on Long Island and Queens and the last time we traveled up to see them, my trunk had over 200 cartons of cigarettes in it for them. There were Chesterfield non-filters, Kool, Camel, and Marlboro smokes for the entire family.

Canada raised taxes on cigarettes a huge amount several years back. Far exceeding those in bordering US states. Drug dealers stopped selling drugs and started dealing in cigarettes. They made the switch because the money was just as good and the penalties were far less if caught according to several who were interviewed.

[Phantom Lord]

Binghamton bump

[facedown]

ping

[stainlessbanner]

Many folks said they would quit smoking if prices kept rising. Maybe that is actually happening, too.

An interesting note, a local drug store in FL had a sign that said "Cigarettes Locked At Night" - apparently to deter thieves....

[JudyB1938]

http://www.cigarette-switzerland.com/cigarettes/cigarettes.htm

http://www.senecasmoke.com/

[borisbob69]

Welcome to the liberal HELL you once heard about but just couldn't quite believe...

Starting today, here in AZ, we are now paying an extra $.60 per pack based on a ballot initiative that was passed several weeks ago. This on top of a hefty punitive tax voted in several years ago.

I hope those who voted to punish us smokers, while avoiding increasing their own taxes, remember the old saying...what goes around comes around! Maybe not today...or even next year...but sooner or later they will come after you! And, when they do I will applaud.

[shadeaud]

Can't wait till the Smoke Police set up derr checkpoints on dah bridges and tunnels vaiting to check fur you to open your trunk and see if you have more than your allotted tobbacco.

[Blood of Tyrants]

The problem with the Rats' thinking is that they are completely incapable of comprehending the concept of a dynamic economy. They think "If we are collecting $X million from taxes on (product, habit, income, etc.) then doubling the tax will double the taxes collected!"

The problem is that people will simply seek a way to avoid paying the tax collections will only go up slightly and in many cases, the tax revenue will actually go down.

You need only to look at the "Luxury Tax" placed on American made yachts in the early 1980's. That tax put thousands of craftsmen and boatbulders out work as people simply went to Europe to buy their yachts. That tax was responsible for destroying the boatbuilding business in the U.S.

Notice that they repealed it when Ms. Soccer Mom's SUV started to bump the $35K trigger.

[VRWC_minion]

Looks like its time to just tax the smokers with a special surtax on their property and income.

[VRWC_minion]

They understand. They know that eventually all the other sates will follow suit, people will tire of rolling their own and making trips to the reservation. Its a long term investment that has proven to work out each time its done.

Smokers are addicted and the demand is not elastic in the long run.

[xzins]

The problem with the tax assault on cigarettes goes to the heart of economics 101. There are far too many options.

Everyone should remember the bottom line. The bottom line is that it is NOT illegal to grow tobacco in your back yard. There are few places in this vast country where you can't simply grow your own. It wouldn't have all the sweeteners and chemicals of the store bought brands, but with a roll-your-own machine, it'd probaby come out to pennies per smoke.

It's possible to put the price on cigarettes too high.

[Ronaldus Magnus Reagan]

People from NY are going to Pennsylvania to buy smokes? Hah! We here in SE Pennsylvania are going to Delaware to buy ours! Carton of marlboro in Pa? Try $37. In Delaware? How about $25!

[general_re]

My wifes family lives on Long Island and Queens and the last time we traveled up to see them, my trunk had over 200 cartons of cigarettes in it for them.

And how did it feel, being a dangerous criminal?

Jabba's through with you, PL. He has no time for smugglers who drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.

:^)

[ohmage]

There was a recent announcement from PA officials. They claimed they have agreement with internet cigarette sellers. If the internet purchasers don't pay the PA tax at time of purchase, they get a bill later.

Or a trip to the big house, I guess.

[Rogle]

That may be true in Connecticut, however here in NM and in AZ where you are surrounded by land owned by Indians that would not be a true statement. Furthermore, all this extra tax on tobacco will only result in a very health black market. I grew up in Europe during the 60’s and 70’s and saw first hand how strong a tobacco black market can be.

[SheLion]

[Alberta's Child]

"People have been making good business out of being a border store," Burns said. "My belief is that their primary business is from New York state customers."

It's amazing how dumb people in government can be -- anyone with a third-grade education could have predicted this.

New Jersey's gasoline tax is among the lowest in the nation, and New York's is among the highest at least among the states in the Northeast. Every major road that crosses the state line between New Jersey and New York is lined with gas stations on the New Jersey side, and there are almost none in New York.

If New York started taxing stupidity, then New Jersey would be in big trouble.

[ohmage]

Here it is

Pennsylvania--Use Tax: Internet, Mail-Order Cigarette Purchases Addressed, 09/30/2002 A person who purchases cigarettes on the Internet, by mail-order, or at a retail store outside Pennsylvania and brings the cigarettes into Pennsylvania for use is liable for Pennsylvania use tax and cigarette tax. The purchaser must file a return and pay the tax owed by the end of the month following the month of purchase. Any person who willfully evades the payment of cigarette tax and possesses any pack of cigarettes without the proper Pennsylvania tax stamp is guilty of a felony and subject to a fine of up to $5,000 and up to five years imprisonment. The Department of Revenue advises taxpayers that federal law requires Internet and mail-order companies to report sales to state revenue authorities, and as a result, the Department has the means to track sales made in Pennsylvania. (Notice, Pennsylvania Department of Revenue, September 2002)

[SheLion]

They shot the goose that laid the golden egg. Now the lawmakers are scratching their heads. They thought they had a bunch of sheeple living in New York.

and

Smokers United

[Alberta's Child]

Canada raised taxes on cigarettes a huge amount several years back. Far exceeding those in bordering US states. Drug dealers stopped selling drugs and started dealing in cigarettes. They made the switch because the money was just as good and the penalties were far less if caught according to several who were interviewed.

That's a good point -- I believe the tax in question was a provincial tax in Ontario, because it was a bigger issue in upstate New York than anywhere else. They ended up reducing the tax because they weren't generating any revenue from it.

The biggest issue with that tax was not the smuggling of cigarettes across the border -- it was the fully LEGAL movement of cigarettes through Indian reservations that straddled the border.