Bush to push for amnesty

Washington Times ^ | Saturday, November 23, 2002 | By Jerry Seper

[JohnHuang2]

The Bush administration wants to grant amnesty to hundreds of thousands of Mexican illegal aliens now in the United States, according to the new U.S. ambassador to Mexico.

Tony Garza, sworn in this week at the White House, told reporters in Mexico City that reaching an accord legalizing the status of Mexican immigrants

[u-89]

Sounds like Orwell

The older I get the more I see that 1984 book as prophecy rather than insightful fiction. It doesn't bother me though as I have come to accept that in life there are some things we can not change, they were meant to be. Just sit back and enjoy the show.

[txdoda]

When legalized they may not being paying much if any federal income tax but sure will be paying S.S. tax and that was the point. >>>>>>>>>

Since when does SS tax "foot the bills of the US" ?....
some say at least 50%, from the 1986 amnesty, immediately
signed up for welfare.

NO MORE AMNESTIES (REWARDS)for lawbreakers, all amnnesties have done is ENCOURAGE more lawbreakers to come get in
line for their REWARD.

[nanny]

[No, they weren't. Our economy has grown by trillions of dollars per year. It is not a zero sum situation. We have far more people doing far more jobs than back in the "good old days" that you're remembering.]

Well since I am not an economist - does the economy growing by trillions? equate enough jobs to take care of the millions that have come here as well s the Americans who have grown? Now keep in mind that we have seen many, many American jobs go overseas in that same time period. I have tried to tell you, but someone who is knowledgable in the construction business gave you the facts - you just don't want to admit it.

Americans are being displaced that is just a given, sorry. But Americans are being bankrupted to care for these folks. Our state is broke, the city of Dallas is broke, hospitals are broke, schools are not broke yet because some taxpayers can still pay -but just give it time. I am expecting a state income tax any year now.

There is nothing right legally or morally about this and there is no benefit to America or working Americans here. There is no way it can be sugar coated - try as you may.

[wardaddy]

I have only tried to be honest here and my original admission was that yes...I have a pretty good idea that nearly all contractors I hire probably use wetback labor.

The problem of illegals for which I am usually called a racist due to my opinions is very far reaching and complex once inside this country. I doubt anyone who lives here does not use or buy somethingt that is a product of that labor pool.

Folks who think I should as an owner/developer, mandate that my contractors prove to me that their hundreds if not thousands of employees and subcontractors' employees are all legal residents frankly do not understand the reality of my business.

I do not know of nor have I heard of anyone in the private sector who can even accomplish this. Not to mention the fact placing such restrictions on any contractor would place my development cost beyond practical feasibility.

You guys (not you precisely) may roast me for acknowledging that I am somewhat aware my GC or CM does indeed employ wetback labor, but there is no other alternative in hiring contractors privately and staying in business.

If anyone on this thread would like to explain to my how they intend to develop an income real estate project in the SE USA today given this reality and mandate that no illegal show their face on their site and still maintain competitive construction cost.....please by all means be my guest.

The fact that anyone is doing it IS the problem. One contractor hires a concrete sub who prices according to wetback crews and pretty soon all the other GCs will do the same or lose business because they are outbid.

As long as they can get in and folks hire them this problem is going to stay....and it's not really substandard wages as much as the fact that they are essentially contract cash labor and the employer doesn't have the usual 25-40% add-ons he would have with legals for taxes, FICA, etc.

Sorry for the rant.

If one can remove most or all of this labor pool from the market then the desired effect would hopefully happen.

I have watched in my life of being raised by a 4th generation contractor (which I'm not, I'm a developer/owner) that nearly all the construction skills once done mainly by blacks in the SE USA are now done by mostly crews of illegal Mexicans or Central Americans ramrodded by a legal immigrant overseer. I understand a number of other industries are basically the same. When I was a boy they came to do truck farming picking but they went home after season and obviously that is over.

[PuNcH]

If one can remove most or all of this labor pool from the market then the desired effect would hopefully happen.

It would be nice if we enforced the laws against employing illegals not to go after you but to create an environment where you can expect to compete with other companies who are working legally. Also if a law abiding company could sue one who competes illegally that would be helpful.

I guess I really cant blame a small business for using illegals in the current environment of non-enforcement.

[u-89]

The thrust of my speculation was tax them to keep Social Security afloat. In other words prevent a massive tax raise for S.S. on the youth who don't have the numbers to support the baby boomers. Funding welfare and everything else comes out of other taxes which they may or may not pay. It is political suicide for everybody in D.C. to have S.S. go under or percieved to be in trouble. The immigration issue is multi-fasceted. This is but one of the whys as I read it. And it doesn't really matter if I am wrong as they are coming anyway and it isn't going to stop.

[txdoda]

Nobody points out that "middle class" America might have
more children IF THEY COULD AFFORD TO. As it is it takes
two working to support ONE KID, and pay taxes/insurance/
ever rising medical costs.
TAXES that give free food/housing/medical to lawbreakers
who sneak into our country to work and not PAY TAXES. Not
counting the CRIMINALS who sneak in that OUR taxes are
used to jail them.

[nanny]

[The point of amnesty is to get them on the books and paying taxes.]

Now you give that statement some thought.

Of course, it is not the point. If they truly intended to get these people 'on the books and paying taxes' - they wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

If employers had to withhold and match taxes, pay workman's comp and provide benefits for these people - they wouldn't want them. That is their attractiveness to employers. Once you realize that - the other will fall in place.

Now these people are not going to begin to pay taxes, and pay for the medical expenses, auto insurance, etc. - if they had to, there would be no benefit to working in America, and they certainly couldn't send money back to Mexico - to the tune of 1/3 of their economy.

If you really think that is the plan - give it some more thought. Do you really think all those people who have been working under the table or working contract labor are going to suddenly pony up their 30 to 40% income taxes and pay their medical expenses? Of course not. Nothing will change except we will never be able to get them out and they will just move over and make room for more illegals.

[nanny]

[Nobody points out that "middle class" America might have more children IF THEY COULD AFFORD TO. As it is it takes two working to support ONE KID, and pay taxes/insurance/ ever rising medical costs.]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Dog Gone]

Do you blame America for the WTC/Pentagon attacks and the 'jihad' waged against us?

No, and nothing I have said here has hinted otherwise. Have you stopped beating your wife?

[Concentrate]

If Bush passes amnesty, I'm going back to my tech. high school and will ask the principal if I can make a speech at the next assembly regarding Amnesty and how it is related to these kids future. If it goes well at my old high school, I'll do it in all the surrounding tech. high schools here in CT.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if you got the time of day from him, or any other principal. Your proposal is way to far out of the PC world.

[nanny]

[Social Security is basically a transfer program. Wage earners with the lowest average lifetime earnings receive a greater return on their "investment." These no way that lowly paid immigrants will be the salvation of this scheme.]

Yes, that idea just makes no sense.

[Dog Gone]

Why would you compare the jobs lost to the jobs the illegals are doing now? We are talking about the jobs and the payrate before they were depressed by illegals.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the connection. How does the pay for a Mexican lawnmower affect the pay for jobs they aren't competing for?

[Dog Gone]

What percentage of our workforce is comprised of illegal aliens? Do you know?

[ApesForEvolution]

I know, I know. But, as an American that is aware of illegals right under your nose, do you feel any obligation to do *anything* about it? Just curious.

[Concentrate]

Illegals erode the rule of law and create an atmosphere that is antagonistic to assimilation. Illegals are antithetical to the American Melting Pot.

bttt.

[ApesForEvolution]

Then what, exactly, did you mean by this?

"We are the ones who are imposing our political will on the rest of the entire planet."

[Concentrate]

I'm sure the New York Post would print opinions as such.

New York Post

Check out the op-eds. (On a daily basis)

[Dog Gone]

I mean that we are the greatest superpower ever on the face of the planet. We have won both world wars. Our culture is sweeping the planet, from our movies to our fast food chains to our economic principles, and more. NATO added seven new countries this week. We dominate.

I don't apologize for it. I'm glad of it. We have more imposing of our will to do in Iraq, Iran, and North Korea.

Mexico does NOT scare me.