Bush to push for amnesty

Washington Times ^ | Saturday, November 23, 2002 | By Jerry Seper

[JohnHuang2]

The Bush administration wants to grant amnesty to hundreds of thousands of Mexican illegal aliens now in the United States, according to the new U.S. ambassador to Mexico.

Tony Garza, sworn in this week at the White House, told reporters in Mexico City that reaching an accord legalizing the status of Mexican immigrants

[u-89]

I knew "El Presidente bush" would do this How can we trust him anymore?

How can we trust any pol? The founders warned us not to, eternal vigilance and all that. We should not just listen to theirs words but also watch their deeds. The Ivy League elites do not believe in old fashioned nationhood. It is out moded and archaic. We are headed for regional blocks. The US, Canada and Mexico will be one block, states in a larger state. As New York is part of the United States, the United States will be part of the North American Union. Eventually this union will cover the entire western hemisphere. The EU will cover Europe to the Urals and China will dominate Asia (just speculation but I wouldn't doubt that Bush's nephew is being groomed for being the first president of the N.American Union. As half Mexican and half Bush he's a natural. A regular dynasty in the making).

[txdoda]

It's an important issue, but the idea that Mexico could control our political process in America is paranoid hysteria. What a joke. >>>>>>>>>

Another Sanchez just spent 70 MILLION @ a run for TX.
governor......look up his views on immigration.

[No dems 2002]

While I strongly feel that immigration should be controlled and reduced, I think there's a fair degree of hysteria on this board. I couldn't help but notice your name "Reaganwuzthebest". Do you know that President Reagan granted amnesty to, I believe, millions of illegal Mexicans in 1986? Don't view that guy through rose-tinted glasses.

While I'm deeply suspicious of what President Bush is up to here, I don't think he'll do something as stupid as President Clinton did or would have done his bawdy regime.

"Apparently you're not paying attention to the politics in California are you?" you say.

Once again, the politics of California is heavily distorted by the right. Do you know what the real problem in CA is? White voters. Not Hispanic voters. White voters. No GOP presidential candidate has broken the 50% mark with white voters in CA since 1988, and, not surpisingly, no Republican pres. candidate has come close to carrying California. In the gubernatorial election just passed, Bill Simon received only 46% of the state's white vote, compared to 43% for Davis. True, Hispanics aren't helping, but they're only a relatively small part of the problem. The assertion that Hispanics are the main problem for the CA GOP is absolutely and utterly false. Republicans in the South couldn't win with white percentages under 50% anywhere, so why blame the Hispanics?

So what's the GOP's CA problem? What happened? Well, a big problem was the conservative white trek out of the state to other states in the US, like Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon, Arizona or Utah, most of which have become dramatically more Republican over the same period that CA has become dramatically more democratic. Whites constitute roughly 70% of the CA electorate and are and have been the deciding force in all recent CA elections. The GOP is losing because of Dem bastions like San Francisco, bloated with (white) liberal voters, most of whom are not Hispanic.

Once again, I agree that the rapid growth of the Latino is a serious problem from a legal point of view, but I do think it's being overblown on this board and blatantly misrepresented in political trends in certain states.

[ApesForEvolution]

Hey, I'm more about making a point than I am 'condemning' you. Your admission, and thankfully your are an honest soul, is the exception and not the rule.

The only difference is, the likelihood of myself traveling to California to see if the workers picking my fruit, and the workers in Kansas cutting my wheat, and the packers in Iowa processing my meat, etc., is far less than you going out to the job site and being able to do something about it.

I am most effective traveling to DC and 'lobbying' on behalf of America's Constitution.

Why not an even-handed approach of going to the INS and having ALL illegals in your county run off? Your supply will go down a little, but the demand may offset it, and in the meantime you can train some lawful residents.

Of course, therein lies the next problem. The INS is part of the alphabetocracy-problem.

If no one cares, no one can complain.

[ApesForEvolution]

"We are the ones who are imposing our political will on the rest of the entire planet."

Are you an American? Are are you saying the American government? How would you construe this statement if I had written it?

[u-89]

If you figured the amount of money taken out of the economy by these illegals, it far surpasses the amount added to it.

They are here in large numbers in order to take money out of the economy! Go to your post office and ask for a list of countries where you can send a US Postal Money Order, where an internatinal money order is not needed. Really, do it. These 3rd world countires are economic messes and our economy is helping keeping theirs afloat. These countries owe our banks big money and we can't let them default on the loans or our economy will get hurt. These immigrants come here and leave their family in the old country and mail the money home. There is a method to our madness. Not saying I like the idea but the world works in strange ways.

[PuNcH]

If the wave of illegals were taking all our jobs, unemployment would be soaring.

That is absolutely false. Just because our society can take in or absorb the problem of an illegal workforce doesnt mean the outcome benefits law abiding citizens. The jobs they destroy for american workers arent automatically replaced by similiar paying jobs.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

I couldn't help but notice your name "Reaganwuzthebest".

Well NO dems 2002, I have gone over the Reagan amnesty a million times on this board and the mistake of it, I'm not going to do it again with you other than to say we should learn from our mistakes shouldn't we?

In the gubernatorial election just passed, Bill Simon received only 46% of the state's white vote, compared to 43% for Davis.

Yeah, and 70% of Latinos voted for Davis, despite the fact he vetoed drivers licenses. If Simon had taken a strong stand on illegal immigration the way Pete Wilson did, he would have not only won more white voters, but more blacks, Asians, and even possibly more legal Hispanic voters who are fed up with illegal immigration as well.

The assertion that Hispanics are the main problem for the CA GOP is absolutely and utterly false.

Never said they were, you're putting words in my mouth. I said illegal aliens were voting, and they're voting for politicians who support open borders and amnesties, the same position as the Mexican government. If you don't have a problem with that in your state, fine, I don't want it mine, we're liberal enough as it is.

[nanny]

[Maybe the reason we haven't seen them is because illegal aliens aren't educated.]You are wrong there. The lastest wave are very educated articulate people. They are doing any job any American can do.

Americans are. The illegal alien who beats an American out of a job was probably up against a pretty poorly-educated American without much motivation.]

I don't know about motivation, but why should the American loose the job if he is doing it well. Just because he is educated. I sense a bit of 'just poor uneducated, unskilled Americans - they don't matter' attitude here. Well, you might not realize it, but when those people no longer have a job - we have to care for them also, as well as subsidize that illegal for things the American worker would not get.

[ The illegals aren't taking good jobs. You don't see them on the assembly line in Detroit. They aren't the tellers behind the counter at your bank.]

Now that is where you are wrong - met a lady a few months ago at an estate sale, she is a bank teller - an illegal. My husband speaks fluent Mexican, so they trust him, but they are not afraid of deportation.

[ Oh, I'm sure there is the exception where some illegal has fooled the system for years and moved into a decent job. But that's not the vast majority of them.]

No, the last time I was back in the area where we used to live, probably 1/2 of the ones I met were very definitely upscale people and they weren't cleaning toilets, or plucking chickens.

Your premise is about 15 years out of date. It really is.

[Anyhow, I realize that I have little chance of making anyone on this thread reconsider their position. For some, this is the most important issue out there, and they won't be satisfied with anything less than mass deportation and troops on the border. I prefer other solutions, and we'll never agree.]

Well you are right - nothing less than full enforcement of the law is right - nothing less. Why should that position change? Right is right. Also, I see the devastation to our education system that is being caused here. I see elderly who are having to sell their homes because their taxes have doubled in the last few years. I see young families struggling just to buy food because taxes are so high. I see law enforcement overwhelmed to the point they just give up. I see our auto insurance doubling because these people are causing damage and not being made to be responsible for it. I see hospital going broke because they use the ER like family doctor - to the point Americans can't get into the ER with a sick child. I see once nice middle class neighborhoods with junked cars and garbage piled up on the curb. I hear everday from people who live where there are many of these people of the drunk driving accidents caused by them, of the constants fights and gunshots from where they live, of the theft done by them.

I am not sure what I should change about my position. I should say all the above doesn't matter because the Republicans are getting contributions from employers of these people, Democrats are going to get their votes, and the employers are able to make out like bandits.

In light of the above - just what position would you suggest I change?

There is no abstract of the jobs lost - someone was doing it when they came - where are all those people? Many of them have managed to survive, though not as well as they were. Many, many of them are on welfare or the wife and children are. You can't seriously be saying that we have imported anywhere from 5 to 12 million, or more depending on who is giving the statistics and no one is put out of a job. No one but those uneducated Americans who do not need a job, anyway. Send the illegals home, and you will find those jobs filled by someone.

[Gunrunner2]

Why is Bush doing this. . .it makes no rational sense.

What is he thinking??!! We won both houses and don't have to pander, and the LEGAL immigrants would vote hard-line Republican if they see the Republican's fighting to keep the system intact.

This saddens me and annoys me greatly.

[u-89]

There are many reasons behind this immigration issue. Yes the Dems want voters and business wants cheap labour. As I just sated in another post these people ship money home and it helps the economies in their homelands which helps our banks which help our economy but there is one very big reason for this giant influx of immigrants that both parties have good reason to support. It is Social Security. Our popluation has not reproduced in the numbers required to keep that ponzi scheme going. We need to import people to keep the tax base up and both parties know it.
BTW you said something about all the construction needing the imported labour or nothing would get done. How much less construction would be going on if we weren't bring in this large amount of people every year?

[txdoda]

. These 3rd world countires are economic messes and our economy is helping keeping theirs afloat. These countries owe our banks big money and we can't let them default on the loans or our economy will get hurt. These immigrants come here and leave their family in the old country and mail the money home.>>>>>>>>>

And how many years can the USA continue to keep all the
third world countries AFLOAT ?? Is mexico EVER going to
work on Mexico's economy ?? I don't know WHERE you are,
but in Texas, my school taxes now support a 40% hispanic
school pop. While our 2000 census said we were 15% hispanic.
Looks like our "people" brought their families and or
added more thanks to welfare.

[nanny]

[Excellent point. Until Bush actually grants amnesty, no reason to blame him. But, we might as well keep our voices heard and help him understand the outcome of such action.]

After amnesty will be too late!!! But yes, President Bush deserve a lot of blame. He has publicly encouraged this with his 'hardworking people' - 'looking for a better life' speeches and his outright refusal to close the borders post 9/11 or make any meaningful changes there. No, he gets no pass on this - he is doing exactly what he intended to do when he took office. Anyone who has followed his speeches and actions since taking office realizes that. Amnesty would have already been enacted if 9/11 hadn't slowed him down.

[No dems 2002]

"Yeah, and 70% of Latinos voted for Davis, despite the fact he vetoed drivers licenses. If Simon had taken a strong stand on illegal immigration the way Pete Wilson did, he would have not only won more white voters, but more blacks, Asians, and even possibly more legal Hispanic voters who are fed up with illegal immigration as well."

True. Bill Simon should have been stronger, but I think that the whole California story has gone over the rails, as to why the GOP is in trouble there. Immigration is, in reality, only a small part. There's a fundamental problem with Californian whites in general that a politician's immigration views in themselves can't fix. I think, in fact, that only God can change the Californian white moral problems. I say that as a former resident of California, too (I spent a good deal of my childhood in southern CA).

[txdoda]

. My husband speaks fluent Mexican, so they trust him, but they are not afraid of deportation.>>>>>>>>>>

That's the same attitude MANY illegals have....."they won't
deport us...we are too many".

[Reaganwuzthebest]

I'm not from California so I'm only taking the word of those who are that whites are fleeing the state in droves. The ones who are remaining behind are the die-hard liberals, so your point is well taken.

But there is no denying illegals are voting and for politicians who will serve their interests- ie open borders and amnesties, which plays right into the Mexican government's interests. Eventually, they will have quite a bit of pull in Washington as they seek to merge the two nations economically and politically. It is their stated goal. Fox makes no secret of it. I'm beginning to wonder if it's ours as well.

[nanny]

[. These people, incidentally do ***bad** work. They may look like they work hard}

I wish I still had the picture of the home my son had built. He had to be out of town due to family illness and work while the majority of the work was being done. It is pathetic. Windows were not straight in the walls. The cabinets, sink and window over the sink was so out of line. The subflooring had 1/2 gaps in it. I can't explain what they did with the actual house sitting on the concrete posts - but it will be rotten and in bad shape in a couple of years. There are holes in the corners where it is supposed to be taped and bedded. I chould stick a pencil eraser in the holes. Huge holes knocked the side of the bathroom cabinets. Just on and on with the problems. He will probably be in litigation for years on this one.

[txdoda]

nothing less than full enforcement of the law is right - nothing less. Why should that position change? Right is right. Also, I see the devastation to our education system that is being caused here. I see elderly who are having to sell their homes because their taxes have doubled in the last few years. I see young families struggling just to buy food because taxes are so high. I see law enforcement overwhelmed to the point they just give up. I see our auto insurance doubling because these people are causing damage and not being made to be responsible for it. I see hospital going broke because they use the ER like family doctor - to the point Americans can't get into the ER with a sick child. I see once nice middle class neighborhoods with junked cars and garbage piled up on the curb. I hear everday from people who live where there are many of these people of the drunk driving accidents caused by them, of the constants fights and gunshots from where they live, of the theft done by them.>>>>>>>>>>>>>


VERY GOOD POST.....and this part needs repeating......

[nanny]

[(just speculation but I wouldn't doubt that Bush's nephew is being groomed for being the first president of the N.American Union. As half Mexican and half Bush he's a natural. A regular dynasty in the making]

I was just talking with my daughter about this and told here he would be the governor of TExas the minute he stepped out of law school - then I said, 'no, he won't start that low.'