Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

What a nice reply.

Thanks.

Have you read little more than Daniken?

I really don't think he is close to the best in any sense but perhaps creativity.

I'm not saying he's 100% nonsense but I consider his validity to be a rather low percentage. That's OK. I think part of him, at least, admits it's wholesale conjecture based on bits and pieces. Most of us are still left at that point with mostly no choice because of the evidence available.

I just think the evidence available for the whole of the UFO phenomena AT THIS POINT is considerably beyond what Daniken was basing his conjectures on.

Even this show last night had lots of bits and pieces that were significant enough in their own right. If they had been points about a murder before a jury, they would have carried significant weight. Collected together, they'd have probably carried the day.

But somehow, the bar has been raised so high due to the effective ridicule designed by the government, that nothing short of tangible prime time fleets of UFO's with Billy Graham's signature running along the bottom of the screen will suffice.

When the tangible demensions of space, time, household objects begin to seem to turn themselves inside out and bounce around as though leading a dance of chaos--how is one at that probably too near point in time--how is one to determine truth? How is one to have any confidence that what he thinks he knows is reliable knowledge?

I submit . . . only walking intimately hand in hand with the Man from Galilee . . . will--in the coming months and near years--afford any lasting confidence of what is true, what is up, what is down.

There are thousands of such reliable stories--many with much more startling clarity and specificity.

But these real people with real stories told for no ulterior gain are all made out to be idiots and liars by the skeptics. And they think we are the crazy ones. Sigh.

And Vince Foster died of hiccups and Ron Brown from terminal air sickness. Raaaahhhhhht. NOT!

Quix, the point is, the story my Dad told me, taken by itself --and I had no other interests in Roswell because I'd never heard of it at the time, is only as mild curiosity even today with more info on Roswell. But the story taken in the mix of all the other 'nothing spectacular to be gained' stories begins to add up into something worth delving deeper into. The key is to remain a tad skeptical while seeking tangible evidence. [I'm a member of MUFON here in Tennessee, but I'm not seeing UFO's just because of my membership.]

"Stupid-stupid-stupid!"

Thanks for your review of this show. Glad I forgot to watch it.

I don't know about the biblical aspects of this, as I'm not very religious, but I'm fairly sure that there is life other than ours in the universe, probably lots of it.

Although I tend to be skeptical, it seem reasonable to suppose that we could have been visited, perhaps on and off throughout history, as many suggest.

I had been under the impression that Greer was pretty fringe. I've enjoyed this thread, though, thanks.

I surprised the New York Times hasn't featured this with the angle that Ronald Reagan was an alien spy.

The photo is from Philly, not Roswell.

You're right on about censoring a report about weather balloons.

I have been curious about the funeral director who was told to bring dozens of child-size coffins. I can't imagine lots of human children dying without the parents' grief being exposed.

According to his ex-wife, the late singer Gordon McRae was stationed at Roswell at the time and told her about it long before it came out in the media. She blamed part of his problems with alcohol, etc., on never being able to discuss and reconcile what happened in Roswell and years of carrying it around with him.

I didn't take V Daniken seriously after his first book, but it was very interesting. As far as ever meeting extra-planetary people, I have real doubts, mainly because of the impossibility of interstellar travel, unless somebody knows some physics we don't. IOW, they may well be out there, but we can't get there and they can't get here. Take care, oz.

QUITE STRONGLY AGREE.

I was VERY wary of Greer for maybe the last couple of years or more. . . until I read his big 570 page DISCLOSURE text. His website seemed OK. He seemed to say OK things. He seemed to have his motives in the right place but--given the topic and so many flakey people amidst it--I was just still quite wary. And I still am to some degree.

But as I read DISCLOSURE, I realized he has a lot more on the ball than I'd given him credit for. Someone has asked for salient excerpts. If I stay awake long enough, I may type in some.

Certainly some VERY HIGH RANKING; VERY HIGHLY QUALIFIED SCIENTISTS etc. have gone on record verifying some very startling things. That takes courage.

It may be a government plot or a government and ET plot or a government/ET/satanic plot to mix wholesale amounts of disinformation toward the globalism The Bible declares will consume the planet. Nevertheless, at least a major percentage of DISCLOSURE is likely solid fact. Almost regardless of what percentage it is--it's once again abundantly clear that we aren't going home to Kansas any more. The rabbit hole is much more likely to be akin to our near future.

Much appreciate your comment. If you want on my new ping list for this topic, please let me know.

Blessings,

That's new information to me but exceedingly believable.

Thanks.

When the thousands of puzzle pieces like this one are added together, the net balance is quite significant.

I certainly would believe the alcoholism bit--This subject area/reality has driven quite a number of people over the edge . . . in no small part because of the government's cruel handling of it.

I have/had long suspected that the speed of light limit was either just plainly wrong or a hoaxed up thing.

My friend who's dad was "Einstein's closest friend" verified my convictions about it.

Then quite a large number of sources in the UFO field verified that there's at least 2-3 DIFFERENT ways around that so called limit. One, if I can word it right, evidently has to do with bending time/space somewhat like a ball bearing would do on a sheet of rubber stretched out. The result sort of is drawing the destination toward you in some sense.

I think another way has something to do with multidimensional realities . . . such that direct in our dimensional realities--the distances are extreme in light years. But if we journey "through" one of any number of other dimensions--extreme distances can turn out to be essentially next door.

I don't remember a 3rd way.

I don't pretend to be physics knowledgeable about such. Not my best course regardless of the aptitude tests. But it sounds quite plausible to me.

Will see how many excerpts I'm up to typing for you from DISCLOSURE etc.

Wellll, I still seem to have some gas . . . here's some excerpts MOST will be paraphrased (except where quotes are given) from DISCOVERY by Greer. It is 570 pages but I strongly recommend the book to anyone interested in the subject.

p. 38 less than 50 people control all the UFO information in the shadow gov/U.S. gov.

CNN reporter asked Gorbachev walking on the street with him and his wife ". . . 'do you think we should get rid of all our nuclear weapons?' And his wife stepped in and she said, no, I don't think we should get rid of all our nuclear weapons because of the alien spacecraft."
"Now CNN put this story on for the half hour, on CNN headline news; I heard this and I jumped up and put a blank tape in to record the next half-hour. Well, that story disappeared and you know who intercepted that. . . "

I (Q) have seen similar things squelched in a similar fashion on CNN, myself.

Dr Carol Rosin Dec 2000 [pp255+]
--"was the first woman corporate manager of Fairchild Industries. and [sic] was spokesperson for Werner Von Braun in the last years of his life . . ."

"She was also present at a meeting in the '70's when the scenario for the Gulf wWar of the '90's was planned."

" . . . Werner Von Braun was dying of cancer, he asked me to be his spokesperson, to appear on occasions when he was too ill to speak. I did this."

"What was most interesting to me was a repetitive sentence that he said to me over and over again during the approximately four years that I had the opportunity to work with him. He said the strategy that was being used to educate the public and decision makers was to use scare tactics...That was how we identify an enemy."

. . .
"Then terrorists would be identified, and that was soon to follow. We heard a lot about terrorism. Then we were going to identify third-world country "crazies." We now call them Nations of Concern. But he said that would be the third enemy against whom we would build space-based weapons."

"The next enemy was asteroids. . . ."

"And the funniest one of all was what he called aliens, extraterrestrials. That would be the final scare. And over and over and over during the four years that I knew him and was giving speeches for him, he would bring up that last card. 'And remember Carol, the last card is the alien card. We are going to have to build space-based weapons against aliens and all of it is a lie.'"

. . .
"What he told me was that there is an accelerated effort in place. He didn't mention a timeline but he said that it was going to be speeding up faster than anybody could possibly imagine. That the effort to put weapons into space was not only based on a lie but would accelerate past the point of people even understanding it until it was already up there and too late."

. . .
"The last card that was being held was the extraterrestrial enemy card. The intensity with which he said that, made me realize that he knew something that he was too afraid to mention. He was too afraid to talk about it. He would not tell me the details.

. . .

". . .He mentioned that extraterrestrials were going to be identified as the final enemy against whom we were going to build space-based weapons back in 1974. The way he said it to me, there was no doubt in my mind that he knew something that he was too afraid to talk about."

. . .

"I have been tracking the space-based weapons issue for about 26 years. I have debated Generals and Congressional Representatives. I have testified before Congress and the Senate. I have met with people in over 100 countries. But I have not been able to identify who the people are who are making this space-based weapons system happen. I see the news. I see the administrative decisions being made. I know that they are all based on lies and greed."
"But I have yet to be able to identify who the people are. . . . I have a feeling that once we start studying this extraterrestrial issue, all of the questions are going to be answered that I have had for 26 years."
"But I have concluded that it is based on a few people making a lot of money and gaining power. It is about ego. It is not about our essence and who we really are on this planet and loving each other and being at peace and cooperating. It isn't about using technology to solve problems and heal people in the planet. It isn't about that. It is about a few people who really are playing an old, dangerous, costly game for their own pocketbooks and power struggle. That is all it is."

"In 1977 I was at a meeting in Fairchild Industries in a conference room called the War Room. In that room were a lot of charts on the walls with enemies, identified enemies. There were other more obscure names, names like Saddam Hussein and Khadafi. But we were talking then about terrorists, the potential terrorists. No one had ever talked about this before but this was the next stage after the Russians against whom we were going to build these space-based weapons. I stood up in this meeting and I said, 'Excuse me, why are we talking about these potential enemies against whom we are going to build space-based weapons if, in fact, we know that they are not the enemy at this time?'
"Well, they continued the conversation about how they were going to antagonize these enemies and that at some point, there was going to be a war in the Gulf, a Gulf War. Now this is 1977, 1977! And they were talking about creating a war in the Gulf Region when there was 25 billion dollars in the space-based weapons program that had yet to be identified. . . ."
. . .
SGreer: "Who was at this meeting?"

CR: "The room was filled with people in the revolving door game. There were people that I had seen once in a military uniform and other times in a gray suit and an industry outfit."

. . . [she resigned in that meeting when they refused to answer her questions and continued planning the Gulf War etc.]

"So when I hear that there is a possible threat of extraterrestrials--and I look at the history of thousands of years of possible ET visitations, and hear the disclosures of honest military-intelligence-industry people who have had experiences with UFO's, with crashes and landings, with live and dead bodies of extraterrestrial beings--I know it is a lie. And if I am ever told that these are enemies against whom we have to build space-based weapons systems, based on my own personal experience of having worked in the military industrial complex on weapons systems and military strategy, I am going to know it is a lie. It is a lie."
"Not only will I not believe it, but I am going to go out as loudly as I can and tell everyone to take a look. They [the Et's] have not taken us away yet [Q: YET!] We are still here after thousands of years of visits."

End of Carol Rosin part

Sgt Clifford Stone

pp 330+

"NASA says it is going to take another 1,400 years before we achieve what we call interstellar travel. I'm telling you by the end of this century we will be doing that. If we do nothing to grow spiritually--and this is a hard thing for me to state -- but if we do nothing to grow spiritually we will not achieve interstellar travel. They will stop us. What's worse they will make themselves known to an unsuspecting people on this planet."

To be continued in next post.
Lord willing and the creek don't rise, and/or other forces don't intervene.

Sgt Clifford Stone continued from DISCLOSURE BY DR GREER "prepublication" version

pp331+

"I do not believe that any government has the right to try to make individuals wo merely see UFO's look crazy. I do not believe that any government has a right knowing that the psychology of specific individuals may ultimately lead to a tremendous amount of mental depression, ultimately, leading in many, many cases to suicide or self destruction . . . "

"And this is not a scary story. You will learn that the ET's have a perception of God. You find they have families. You find they have cultures. You find that they have likes and dislikes. You look for those things that are similar among us, not the differences. . . ."

"WEll, back to my own story, we had just finished the training that I took to be an NBC NCO. And a friend of mine brought me back to Fort Lee, Virginia. He was going to Fort Meade, Maryland and says, come on, I'll give you a ride to your base. And we discussed UFO's on the way to Fort Lee."
"Several weeks after I got back to Fort Lee, I got a call from this person and I was going to visit him at Ft. Meade. When I got to Fort Meade where he was supposed to be, they said, well, he is going to be tied up we'll talk to you later about his situation as soon as he gets free. This person says, by the way, have you ever been to the Pentegon? Well, at that time I had never been at the Pentagon. So they said, well, it is really a unique place. Why don't we go ahead and give you the twenty-five cent tour. So we went on over. We went in. I had a little badge that was given to me, no picture on it. But the guy that was with me, his had a picture and he'd just tell the guards he is authorized to come with me. And he'd always be the one to get me in. Finally we got to a place that has an elevator. We went down on it-I don't know how far down we went. I can't tell you if there is one flight under the Pentagon, two or fifty. But we went down. When we get out there, there are two monorails there. I mean, there are monorails under the Pentagon. They look like big tubes, rather thick in the center, one on each side. So you had these little monorails with cars that look like a bullet, where you could seat two people in front and two people in back. We got on the one monorail and started to go, it seemed like maybe 20 minutes, but I'm guessing at that because I don't know for sure."
"When we got out, he says, well, let me show you some interesting sites down this corridor here. So we are going down the corridor and it looked like there was a door at the far end of that corridor. As we got closer and closer to that door, my guide turned to me and stated, you know, things aren't always as they seem to be. . . . He says it is just like the walls here--they don't all seem like walls. And I said, what do you mean they are not walls? I said, what are you talking about? I thought, you know, he was trying to make a joke. At that time he says, no, it is like the wall behind you. I look and it looks like a wall to me. There are no seams or anything I can see. Then he pushes me. I try to grab myself but there is actually a door that opened."
"Well, when you go through the door there is like a field table there. And behind the field table you had this little entity. The entity was a little bigger than the 3, 3 1/2 foot tall entities that are a lot of times reported. But there were two men on either side of the table slightly behind the creature. When I turned around, I looked right into the eyes of this little creature. And you know, it's like you are seeing it but everything is being pulled from your mind-he was reading my whole life. It is hard to describe what I really felt there-your life up to that point goes by in seconds. And I mean you were feeling everything."
"I remember going down and grabbing a hold of my head like this and falling to the floor. The next thing I remember I wake up and I am back in my friend's office [back at Fort Meade[. And when I'm back in Jack's office they told me nothing happened that I had been there the whole day. But I knew better."

. . . "It was a triangular shape about three football fields on either side of the triangle."

. . .

"Not more than two-dozen UFO's had been retrieved by 1969 when I was briefed first. We were informed that there had only been a couple dozen tops-that there were several in the '40's and the early 50's. And to make it perfectly clear about those events that took place then, it sounds crazy but our radar wreaked havoc on the ET guidance systems and they had to make adjustments to their guidance systems for that."
"How many bodies had been recovered? Don't know. How many crashes have occurred in which we only got debris because the ET's came and did their recovery before we got there? Don't know but it has happened."

I think I'm getting tired.

The above quotes are not even the most interesting parts to me. I really hope some of you will get the book and read it so we can discuss it more knowledgeably.

Blessings,
Suggestions:
Dont' take any wooden nickels.
Resist any ET flights.
Put God and His Kingdom first--all the other STUFF will sort itself out from there.

. . . eventually.

DISCLOSURE excerpts continued.

If you have the slightest serious interest in this topic--PLEASE GET THE BOOK--these excerpts are far from the bulk of the book--virtually every page is attention grabbing--IT'S WELL WORTH THE PRICE and at least VERY ENTERTAINING. But I think it's import is far beyond entertaining. . . . Q

Master Sergeant Dan Morris, USAF Retired/NRO Operative Sept 2000
p357+
"Dan Morris is a retired Air Force career Master Sergeant who was involved in the extraterrestrial projects for many years. After leaving the Air Force, he was recruited into the super secret National Reconnaissance Organization, or NRO, during which time he worked specifically on extraterrestrial-connected operations. He had a cosmic top-secret clearance (38 levels above top secret) [Q--my brother had the same level clearance--Q] which he states, no U.S. president, to his knowledge, has ever held [Q--It's conceivable that Bush senior as head of CIA had a pretty high clearance--many of which require at least 15 years government service--Q]."

"In his testimony, he talks of assassinations committed by the NSA; he tells how our military deliberately caused the 1947 ET craft crashes near Roswell, and captured one of the ET's, which they kept at Los Alamos for 3 years until he died. He talks about the intelligence teams that were charged with intimidating, discrediting, and even eliminating witnesses to ET/UFO events. He talks about Germany's re-engineering of UFO's even prior to WWII. He talks about our current energy crisis--and the fact that we haven't needed fossil fuels since 1940s, when free energy technologies were developed--but have been kept from humanity. This is the real reason for the secrecy of the ET/UFO subject. 'What the people in power right now don't want us to know is that this free energy is available to everybody." . ..

"The National Security Agency--the killers work in that. . . . Secretary of Defense Forestall was the first real powerful, known person that was eliminated because he was going to release the information--and nobody has ever paid for that crime . . . Most people know that he was thrown out the window of a hospital--but he wasn't killed by being thrown out the window--but he never got up alive . . ."

"There are other people who have been eliminated for what they know. One was a friend of mine, Phil Snyder, who worked out here in New Mexico building the tunnels--the biggest one that he was involved with was the Dulce underground facility. He was an explosives expert, and when he blasted through this area, it wasn't ours--it was some other alien's place. So the natural--our response--is to shoot. So we did, and they shot, and he was hit with a radiation laser, and from that day on he had a scar from here clean up to here. When he started turning public and was speaking in public--released a lot of stuff on his personal computer to the public--they were going to get rid of him, and he knew it. He told me, the last time I saw him, he said, 'Man, I don't care, I'm in so much pain--if they get rid of me, it would be a blessing.' Well, they did get rid of him. . . . the coroner did change the records--that it was not suicide, but it never got changed officially."
"I know that Phil loved this country, and he thought these programs were bypassing our form of government. The way it was set up, there were too many black projects going on--and none were approved by our Congress."
"This whole project of bringing this out in the open will probably take other people, too. But myself--I'm 73 years old and I've had a good life and no regrets, and I've loved this country, and I've been a Christian all my life, since I was about 11 years old--so I believe God wants this known, and I believe the cosmos wants this known. And I believe that if we don't break the secrecy...We're doing our people a great harm, keeping it so secret, and if we don't break it, I believe somebody else will--somebody outside of this planet. I believe some of the people who have been with us the last fifty years will break the secret."

. . .

"Do you know why we stopped exploding nuclear weapons? We were ordered to do it by those ETs from Orion. Orion--they came down and they told us, 'Look, you can destroy yourselves, so we won't put up with that. If you do that--if you explode that planet--and you've got the capability now...' That's when we really got their attention, and they came down and they said, "Look, we won't let you destroy your planet, so we want you to stop all nuclear testing.' They had already stopped us from using weapons, and then they told us, 'No more nuclear testing.' Now Russia and the United States--we were firm believers, by then, that those people could do what they said."

"One time we shot down one, and we were catching hell for that. But, what do you think we did with all these nuclear weapons that we and Russia had? We put nuclear weapons out in space as a line of defense--and we were ready to blow them up if they started in."

. . .

"UFOs are both extraterrestrial and man made. The guys that were doing the UFOs--they weren't sleeping--and Townsend Brown was one of our guys who was almost up with the Germans. So we had a problem--we had to keep Townsend Brown--what he was doing on [the] anti-gravity, electromagnetic propulsion secret. Even back in Tesla's time, we had free energy that we could transfer. All you had to do was just put up an antenna, and put a stake in the ground, and you could light this house and have all the energy you needed. But what do we run on? For the last century, we've run on petroleum. Who's in control of the petroleum in the world? A lot of people think that Iraq, Iran and so on, are. They aren't. We control it--us and the British interests. Well, some people refer to this as the secret government: a group of the richest men in the world control petroleum. You don't need cars unless you have an internal combustion engine. Well, if you have one of these units that's about sixteen inches long and about eight inches high and about ten inches wide, then you don't need to plug into the local electric company. These devices burn nothing--no pollution; it never wears out, because there are no moving parts--what moves are electrons in the gravity field; in the electronic field; and they turn in opposite directions, okay? You put one in a car--the car would rust and fall down around it before it would ever wear out. So, what's that going to do to the world economy that runs on petroleum?"

Testimony of Mr Don Phillips, Lockheed Skunkworks, USAF and CIA Contractor Dec 2000

" . . . He states that in the 1950s and 1960s NATO did research into the origin of ET races, and disseminated reports to the leaders of various countries. Mr. Phillips further states that there are records and filmed documentation of meetings in California in 1954 between Ets and leaders of the USA. He lists a few of the technologies we were able to develop because of the ETs: computer chips, lasers, night vision, bulletproof vests, and concludes, 'Are these ET people hostile? Well, if they were hostile, with their weaponry they could have destroyed us a long time ago--or could have done some damage.' Mr Phillips now develops technologies that can help eliminate environmental pollutants and reduce the need for fossil fuels: energy generation systems that use natural energies from planet earth."

"We have records from 1954 that were meetings between our own leaders of this country and ET's here in California. And, as I understand it from the written documentation, we were asked if we would allow them to be here and do research. I have read that our reply was, well, how can we stop you? You are so advanced. And I will say by this camera and this sound, that it was President Eisenhower that had this meeting. And it was on film, sort of like what we are doing now. Bringing it up to date, the NATO report gave that there were 12 races. To make a final summary, they had to have contacts to go to these races in order to understand who they are, what they are doing, and what they will do. And the report didn't get into the context, but it certainly did verify that they haven't been here for just a few years, but rather hundreds, maybe thousands of years. And this is written in the text."

"We also got these things that are handheld scanners, that we scan the body, and determine what the condition is. We can also treat from the same scanner. ARe these things real? Well, I can tell you, personally, that we've been working on them. And, we have ones that can cure cancer. Yes, diagnose and cure."

Q: Tired again. Maybe more later.

A computer analysis of that memo, held by Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey during a July 1947 press briefing, is the "smoking gun" of the Roswell Incident, researchers say in the documentary being broadcast today on the Sci-Fi Channel.

So the good general is going to show the weather balloon, while at the same time waving what would have to be an ultra-Top Sectet memo in front of the photogs?

Riiiiiiigghhht!

What a crock.

You probably have a head you could use in putting yourself in Ramey's place.

He's just seen stuff very few people on the face of the planet have seen. There's been a press release authorized by a higher up.

Now higher ups are upset and insisting on lies as a cover story. And a press photo op is sprung on him out of the blue while he's trying hard to process all this.

The whole group and individuals are making up rules as they go along because this sort of thing has not happened to them before nor to anyone they know.

In the midst of trying to cope with the whole scene and read the memo he's ordered to pose with some balloon pieces and lie to the American public.

I'm pretty bright and can sometimes think fast on my feet but I could easily imagine I'd have done exactly as he did.

Evidently you're so perfect in so many respects you aren't plagued with humanness like the rest of us are.

And . . .

Were YOU aware in 1947 that in 2002 we'd have home computers; great software to fill-in missing data bits etc.?

Were YOU aware in 1947 that in 2002 we'd have home computers; great software to fill-in missing data bits etc.?

Look at it this way:

Even in 1947 they knew what "Top Secret" meant. And the thought that a general would stop off at the safe, balloon under one arm, for a top secret memo to wave around in front of the people to whom he's lying -- that is pure horse manure.

I've no doubt that there is more to this story -- some deep secret that they're still lying to protect.

But that doesn't prevent this story from still being crap.