Posted on 11/21/2002 10:52:30 PM PST by mlo
"If there's just one guy, how come there's so many pages?"
Here's a similar question: Why did it take four years of investigation to determine that Vince Foster killed himself in Fort Marcy Park. The first day, everyone "knew" it was just a plain old suicide. Only a few "nuts" doubted it.
If it was so obvious to any sane person, why would it take four years to show that?
I love Ken Starr's explanation: "See, the reason we took so long was because we were so careful and thourough, etc., and we wanted to be really, really, sure..."
LBJ must smile from his grave when he sees articles, like this one, without any reference to him.
Interesting logic and an even more interesting word choice.
I'm glad you know it all, so you can tell us.
How do you know nobody fired a shot from the grassy knoll?
I'm being a little sarcastic, here, but seriously - I find it incredible that anyone could see the Zapruder film (the fatal shot) and not be convinced that the shot came from the front. Kennedy's head is thrown violently, suddenly back.
You've seen this and seriously believe (so much that you have no doubt) that this was a shot from behind, and the head-backward movement was due to a "neuromuscular reaction."?
Hey, if you really saw that and really buy the story, then tell me. I've been wrong before, and I'd like to hear someone's honest opinion if they see things differently.
Gary was actually the person who brought the acoustics issue to the attention of the HSCA in the first place. He is one of the strongest defenders of the acoustic evidence. I've worked with him on some things, and believe he is a decent person whether I agree with him or not.
There is a web site for the museum: www.jfk.org
"The annual JFK "November in Dallas" research conference, which is open to the public, begins Friday at the Dallas Radisson and includes a keynote address by Texas researcher Don Thomas, who has conducted his own detailed study of "echo correlation" in Dealey Plaza."
If you do get down there and can attend this presentation you might find it interesting. Tell Gary and Don you are a friend of mine.
That accounts for the alleged smoke on the Grassy Knoll.
Historian speeds up attempt to log historic event as witnesses age
11/22/2002
Stephen Fagin collects oral histories for The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza. He is in a race against time.
By Friday, the 39th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Mr. Fagin hoped to have interviewed 30 people this year who were witnesses or who played roles in the drama of that November weekend in Dallas.
"That's the most we've had in seven years," he said. "Next year, we want to double it, partly because it will be the 40th anniversary and partly – how can I say this? – nobody lives forever."
WITNESSES TO HISTORY | |
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Earlier this month, Charles Nathan D'Hority, one of the Dallas Police Department's lead investigators in the assassination, died at 79. C. James Carrico, the first doctor in the Parkland Memorial Hospital Emergency room to attend to the president, died in July.
The year also saw the deaths of Tom Clinton Dillard, a Dallas Morning News photographer who rode in the presidential motorcade, and Roy "Kees" Higgins, a Dallas police officer at Parkland who helped move the mortally wounded president from his limousine.
Of the 250 people interviewed since the oral history project began in 1992, about one-fifth have died, Mr. Fagin said. Most were relatively minor figures. The toll among the principal players, most of whom were middle-aged in 1963, has been even more severe.
Of the six people in the presidential limousine at the moment of the shooting, only Nellie Connally – wife of the Texas governor – still survives.
Personal views lost
The passage of time bedevils historians.
When John Mark Dempsey, a professor at the University of North Texas, began in 1999 to research a book on the trial of Jack Ruby, he could interview only three jurors. One, though still alive, could not be found. The others had died.
"The facts in the trial aren't that hard to find. You can go to the record and find out exactly what happened," Dr. Dempsey said. "But what you can't get are people's emotions, their opinions, their personal reflections on things. ... That's what will be lost as more of them pass on."
The passage of time also creates problems for people who believe that the truth is still out there.
"Every year, you have people who appear on Dealey Plaza who claim they were there that day, and their stories get more outrageous," said Dave Perry of Grapevine, who is considered among the most cautious of the conspiracy theorists.
Mr. Perry has compiled a list of people who have been accused by other conspiracy theorists of being in Dealey Plaza on Nov. 22, 1963, with the intent of doing the president harm. His list has 67 names.
"What happens is that the people who were there and could definitely say that so-and-so didn't happen are no longer around," he said. "That allows people to claim anything, and nobody can say any different."
More digging needed
Thirty-nine years after the event, Mr. Perry says he fears he may never be able to name an accomplice to Lee Harvey Oswald, whom the Warren Commission described as the lone assassin.
But he believes that improvements in technology can provide better analysis of evidence. He noted that a 1970s acoustic study of the assassination site raised the possibility of an additional gunshot, later dismissed by others as being the sound of a motorcycle backfiring.
"I'd like to see what they'd find if they repeated that study, using technology that exists now," he said.
Gary Mack, curator of The Sixth Floor Museum, agrees that there is still fruitful evidence to be gathered.
"Most of the principal players were interviewed within a year after the assassination, and those interviews are on record for all time," he said.
"The problem is that new questions have arisen over the years, and those questions weren't necessarily asked in 1964."
Local residents often offer Mr. Mack photos taken on Dealey Plaza the day after the assassination. Most of them show crowds or mounds of bouquets, and the donors are surprised when Mr. Mack shows interest, he said.
"We know Jack Ruby visited Dealey Plaza sometime during that period, and I keep looking at those photographs of flowers, hoping I'll see him in the background," Mr. Mack said.
And museum officials keep urging those with even seemingly minor connections to the assassination to record their oral histories.
Fading memories
Earlier this month, Rio Pierce was among them.
Mr. Pierce, 79, was the police lieutenant in charge of security in the Police Department garage on Nov. 24, 1963, when Oswald, newly accused of killing the president, was shot by nightclub figure Jack Ruby.
![]() Rio Pierce, 79, headed security in the Dallas Police Department garage the day Lee Harvey Oswald was shot. He will finally tell his story because his "memory is getting shorter all the time." (MONA REEDER / DMN) |
"It was a historic event, and a lot of people had wanted interviews. I guess I felt like I needed to tell the stories," he said. "My memory is getting shorter all the time."
Therein lies the problem.
"Not only do people die off, but memories fade and people read books and it colors what they think they remember," Mr. Fagin said.
For that reason, Mr. Mack said, a doctor in the Parkland emergency room backed out of an oral-history interview.
"He said he was afraid he would misremember something, and that would only stir up more controversy where there was enough controversy already," he said.
Dave Wiegman, who was in Dallas 39 years ago as an NBC-TV photographer, gave interviews to the Sixth Floor Museum and to the Discovery Channel a few weeks ago. He figured it was now or never.
"I'm getting a lot of stuff together in the garage, old Kennedy photographs that I'm sorting out," said Mr. Wiegman, who now lives in Easton, Md.
"I'm 76, and hopefully I've got another 10 years or so, but I figured if I don't do it now, it isn't going to get done.
"There aren't too many of us left in the boat."
I just had to laugh at that part. A whole "conspiracy theory" industry exists out there filled with lots of people who will be happy to sell you something. While I've never entirely bought the Warren Commission report, I certainly don't believe the tin-foil salesmen.
It must be wonderful to live in your tidy little world.
He is only speaking the truth. The "mystery" in this case was manufactured after the fact, by people with an agenda.
Kennedy's head makes a sudden jerk *forward* at frame 312. After the head shot he falls back. Saying he is "thrown violently, suddenly back" overstates the case.
Hollywood movies give the impression people get thrown around by gunshots. In real life, a high velocity rifle shot is likely to simply pass through, imparting very little velocity to the victim.
A number of different expert panels have reviewed the medical evidence, begining with the autopsy crew and continuing on up through the HSCA investigation, and all have concluded that JFK was hit with two shots from above and behind.
The material ejected from the head in the Z-film goes *forward*, not backward.
The bullet fragments from the head shot that were collected in the limo were all found in front of where JFK was sitting.
Some fragments were large enough to be ballistically matched with the weapon. ALL such fragments, and the Connally bullet too, were fired from Oswald's rifle.
Neutron Activation Analysis shows that all the fragments came from the bullets that were ballistically matched to Oswald's rifle.
That rifle was found on the sixth floor with three empty cartridge cases. Oswald made a special trip to pick it up the night before and took it to work that day.
A large majority of witnesses reported hearing three shots.
A large majority of witnesses reported that all shots came from only one location, and that location was the Texas School Book Depository.
Oswald was seen in the window with the weapon.
Nobody was seen firing a weapon from the Grassy Knoll, even though numerous witnesses were in the area or looking in that direction.
There is no medical or ballistic evidence at all for a shot from the front, or for any shot from a different weapon.
.... Saying he is "thrown violently, suddenly back" overstates the case...
It's been a while since I've seen this, and maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but that description sure sums up what I saw. The forward motion, as I recall, only takes place for one frame, so I don't doubt that it exists, but it can't be detected by anyone watching the film at normal speed.
Anyway, what you're saying is that the bullet from behind started his head going down, then the n.m. reaction started the head going back. That would have to be one heck of a n.m. reaction to abruptly overcome the downward momemtum.
A number of different expert panels have reviewed the medical evidence, begining with the autopsy crew and continuing on up through the HSCA investigation, and all have concluded that JFK was hit with two shots from above and behind...
And a lot of others have concluded otherwise. The autopsy was fraught with errors and tons of weird discrepencies. There are a lot of people like me who just want to know what happened, and many of them have more impressive credentials than the "experts".
The HSCA concluded two snipers, remember. I know this was based of the accoustic evidence, but still, it shows that experts can disagree.
A large majority of witnesses reported hearing three shots...
Is this true? Even the police tape recorded four "shot-like" sounds (Bam... Bam... Bam-Bam)if I recall correctly. there were all kinds of differing reports on how many shots. I don't remember there being any consensus on any number. (I believe even John Connely insisted that he and the President were never hit by the same bullet.)
...A large majority of witnesses reported that all shots came from only one location, the TSBD...
Are you sure about this also? Can't recall, but I don't recall this being the case.
Oswald was seen in the window with the weapon...
By who? I don't recall this either.
...Nobody was seen firing a weapon from the Grassy Knoll, even though numerous witnesses were in the area or looking in that direction...
True, but that's a little misleading. There was a lot of bushes and stuff to hide behind, and everyone had his eyes on the President at the time.
There is no medical or ballistic evidence at all for a shot from the front, or for any shot from a different weapon
Ther may not be ballistic evidence, but there *is* plenty of "medical evidence" that raises, at least, tons of suspicion.
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