Fatal shooting of man by police raises some troubling questions

RICHMOND TIMES DISPATCH ^ | Sunday, November 17, 2002 | MARK HOLMBERG

[putupon]

If only Jeramy O. Gilliam had matched the description of the late-night burglary suspect on July 20.

If only the .38-caliber Taurus revolver Richmond police say he pulled and pointed at a Richmond officer had his fingerprints on it.

If only police could trace ownership of that revolver - bought at a gun show - to him.

[Ground0]

Perhaps there is a missing piece to this puzzle...what if the upstanding cop had some type of personal vedetta agaist the "suspect." Sleeping with his wife/daughter/son..whatever. Sold him some bad viagra, beat him at bowling last Tuesday night. Who knows?

The point is, even the non-accused "suspect" is presumed innocent until PROVEN GUILTY. Or has something changed? A man should not have to die over a simple case of mistaken identity...no matter how unsavory his character.

[toddst]

You're an idiot.

Well, newbie, what else can you do but call people names? If that's all you bring to FR few will respond to you.

You have anything to say that's constructive, hotshot?

[toddst]

There are a lot of bad guys out there. Some of them are wearing badges.

I agree with you. However, the bad guys wearing badges have to worry about Internal Affairs reviewing their actions. Also the Prosecutor's Office if evidence of criminal behavior is identified. For the most part, the system of checks in police departments works pretty well IMO.

[Cicero]

It's always difficult to decide what happened when there's only a single witness, who may not be lying but who would have a strong motivation to lie if he were guilty.

My guess is that the young man who was shot was drunk, or on drugs, or acted foolishly. But it's just a guess, based on what we are told about the police officer not being known as a troublemaker. The family of the victim or the perp always says, "He was such a good boy." And the policeman's colleagues always say, "He is a good officer." Hopefully the jury listened to the various stories and used their best judgment.

[toddst]

If nothing else it's s***ty and unprofessional police work when non-suspects wind up dead during the course of the investigation.

We don't disagree on this point. However, it appears the police officer was fighting for his life against an armed adversary who objected to having his identity checked.

This kind of situation has gotten many police officers killed because they didn't react quickly enough. In this case I would like to see what the final outcome of the investigation is. However, I seriously doubt anything new will be uncovered other than more information on why the dead man was resisting being identified.

[toddst]

Why didn't the Lubbock homeowner get the benefit of the doubt?

All I can do is speculate. The homeowner had already exhibited pretty unstable and hostile behavior. Also, a police officer was dead and it wasn't clear where the shot came from. That situation tends to cause police officials to assume the worst per the adversary.

Once all the information came out the homeowner was cleared and released. Again I will say if the homeowner had not behaved in such a strange and hostile manner initially there would never have been any actual confrontation with the SWAT team.

[toddst]

When a Lord kills a peasant, he doesn't even get a slap on the wrist - it was a "good shoot" (the present case).

It remains to be seen what happens with the officer in this case. I'm assuming the investigation isn't over, but perhaps I missed something.

I don't really believe there is a double-standard, to answer your question. A shooting by a police officer is always a tough situation. In too many cases police officers find their careers essentially derailed after they are involved in a shooting incident, even if it's "clean." This alone can cause an officer to hesitate to fire in a situation where he really shouldn't. Some officers get shot as a result. My opinion.

[lightningrod]

Talk about an identity problem points straight to the Peace Officer. He was not in uniform but was wearing a "bib". Police wear bibs?

If an officer wants respect he should wear a uniform, a hat, and a badge. There are many peace officers strolling around in POLICE t-shirts (which you can buy at any flea market), shorts, and tennis shoes. The victim probably had no idea he was being harrassed by a "real cop".

The trash collectors in many towns dress more proffesional than the police.

[toddst]

There are many peace officers strolling around in POLICE t-shirts (which you can buy at any flea market), shorts, and tennis shoes. The victim probably had no idea he was being harrassed by a "real cop".

I doubt the police uniform or lack thereof was the problem in this incident. All this man had to do was provide ID to the officer and do nothing threatening.

And what department are you referring to with all the comments about they dressing badly? You sound very critical of police officers in general.

[gunnedah]

Several things come into play. Society as a whole and the race issue. Drinking changes a lot of people and in most cases they become hostile to authority or they become very submissive. Most people on alcohol and or drugs unfortunately act one of those two ways.The other is the police officer could have over reacted.Regardless there are no winners in this deal and the truth probably will never be known and for a fact several families including the police officer will never be the same.If the policemen is for real he will not get over it either way. But it didnt have to happen if the poor victim would have only surrendered to authority and followed the course laid out by society and I for one dont like that and know the court system is just as bad so why not lets try to improve the system from all angles.The first place to start is with children and teach them to respond properly to authority.

[toddst]

. . . it didnt have to happen if the poor victim would have only surrendered to authority and followed the course laid out by society . . . so why not lets try to improve the system from all angles.The first place to start is with children and teach them to respond properly to authority.

I couldn't agree with you more. Let's DO teach youngsters the proper response to authority. Their lives hang in the balance.

[rellimpank]

--I most assuredly will do whatever a cop tells me, as I live in a jurisdiction where several years ago the newspaper noted the one hundredth "civilian" killed by a police officer with never an officer charged with wrongdoing. Since then it must be well over one hundred twenty five including an unarmed individual, who according to all the other witnesses, was dribbling a basketball.

While this seems to indicate perfection on the part of the police, civil court actions or settlements amounting to multiple millions of dollars have been awarded to the survivors of some of "justifiable" deaths.

Knowing only what I read above about this case, I find it amazing that the gun was "thrown" thirty five feet as described--

[germanicus]

Hey, you should know better by now that to try to defend a cops action on FR. You get the libertarian, authority (cop) hating crowd out immediately. And they stoop so low as to start with the name calling instead of any intelligent discourse. I know. It happened to me. Just let it go.

[notdownwidems]

Excellent point, Coloradan...speaking from the Denver area myself, remember the Ismail Mena case? I used to watch 'Cops' and believe they really were polite and courteous, to serve and protect. After having to actually deal with them a few times during my divorce and whatnot, I have a somewhat different opinion!
I sincerely doubt they will ever be held to the same standard as the rest of us,however, and sometimes I admit I wouldn't even want them to. But their arrogance and bullying does really give me a pain!

[toddst]

Hey, you should know better by now that to try to defend a cops action on FR. You get the libertarian, authority (cop) hating crowd out immediately. And they stoop so low as to start with the name calling instead of any intelligent discourse. I know. It happened to me. Just let it go.

Thanks for the warning. You are exactly right, based on what's transpired on this thread. However, I can't let this kind of insanity just roll unchallenged.

I know many dedicated police officers who've put their lives on the line to stop the gouls. Then, look out if they don't make the perfect PC decision in a split-second with their life in the balance.

Sure, mistakes are made. In this case the "citizen" made it. That's why he's dead. Prepare to respond as directed by a police officer, or run the considerable risk of dying. Just fact.

[toddst]

I sincerely doubt they will ever be held to the same standard as the rest of us,however, and sometimes I admit I wouldn't even want them to. But their arrogance and bullying does really give me a pain!

We could be describing Navy fighter pilots - arrogant and aggressive. It goes with the territory IF you're going to stay alive when you are attacked by someone who has no hesitation to come at you with a deadly weapon. Tends to set guys apart from "civilians."

[gunnedah]

I meant that was the starting place but a lot of adults need that same lesson!I despise the system as much as anyone but someone must be in charge.

[toddst]

I meant that was the starting place but a lot of adults need that same lesson!I despise the system as much as anyone but someone must be in charge.

10-4. Someone indeed.

[Redbob]

Taurus .38 with no fingerprints on it?

Couldn't perhaps be a "throwdown" gun?

[toddst]

Taurus .38 with no fingerprints on it?

Couldn't perhaps be a "throwdown" gun?

Yep. Sure could be. We don't have enough information to know what happened per the gun and no fingerprints. My guess is the "perp" had sweaty hands and prints were smeared in the struggle. Reference was made to DNA evidence.

I've re-read the article several times and based on everything I believe it's a "clean shoot" by the police officer. The "perp" did have some problems in his past AND was really drunk. Drunks can get very mean and their judgement is lousy in situations like this. Just my opinion.