Iraq air defenses fire on coalition aircraft (MATERIAL BREACH)

Fox News Channel | 11/15/2002 | FNC

[Libertarian4Bush]

FNC reports that Iraq air defenses fire on coalition aircraft at 2:50 EST

[nevergore]

As we say in America...."glass his *ss"
NeverGore

[wewillnotfail]

and pulverize as many Iraqi radar sites as
possible before the December Campaign to soften up things


bingo

[jimbo123]

I don't think he said he was an American Navy vet. He might be from Iraq, Iran, Pakistan or France. But not from here.

[AmericanInTokyo]

U.N. Charter Article 51 recognizes such an inherent right as today, exercised which US and British pilots acted in the NFZ: "if an armed attack occurs" against a U.N. member state, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.

The right of self-defense could extend even to air strikes outside the zones, if the use of force in the exercise of the right is necessary under the circumstances and proportionate to the use or threat of force being defended against. Under a 19th-century formulation by the U.S. Secretary of State in what is known as the Caroline incident, reaffirmed by the Nuremberg Tribunal after World War II, the necessity must be "instant, overwhelming, and leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation." In the absence of access to classified information, it is not possible to assess how immediate or great a threat the Iraqi air defense facilities posed to the aircraft patrolling the zones today. The immediacy and magnitude of the threat would affect both the necessity and the proportionality of today's air strikes. If both of those tests were met, and if the enforcement of no-fly zones in Iraq is permissible under U.N. Security Council resolutions, the self-defense argument is strong.

[cake_crumb]

"They were set up arbitrarily by the US and UK following DSI and actually are an illegal occupation of a soverign nations' airspace."

Oh come off it. They were a condition of peace to protect what Kurds Saddam didn't gas, and the UN DID endorse them.

[VRWC_minion]

Iraq surrendered and has yet to conform to the terms of the surrender that they agreed to.

[Tree of Liberty]

You state a falsehood when you say the no-fly zones are a violation of Iraq's soverignty. They agreed to it.

Furthermore, any attack on U.S. planes in the no-fly zone is a material breach under Security Council Resolution 1441, section 8:

...Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution [emphasis mine]

[MadIvan]

As we say in America...."glass his *ss"

I'm a firm believer in peace through strength. In the case of the USSR, it was merely necessary to show the West had nukes and leaders who were not going to back down.

In the case of Al Qaeda and Islam, it's going to be necessary to take a big sponsor of terror and hang his bloody, beaten, smashed and broken corpse in front of the Arab world and for them to be told, "Chew on this, you bastards".

Figuratively speaking, of course. In total, however, I am tired of being sensitive to people who intend to kill us.

Regards, Ivan

[AmericanInTokyo]

Don't change the subject, troll (er, sorry.... 'newbie').

Stand your ground and debate your initial assertion that the Allied pilots' attacks today on Iraqi radar sites are in violation of the UN or other international norms.

[BCrago66]

The Enterpise? You know Sulu?

[johnb838]

It is absurb to contract out America'a national security to a diplomat named Blix, and I trust that President Bush will not do that.

Or contract out the nuclear piece of the investigation to a functionary named Mohammed?

[AmericanInTokyo]

Thank you for your service, sir! We all have differences of opinion.

Heck, even Edison Miller served in 'the Nam.

[VRWC_minion]

Is that how you treat newcomers here? Boy, that's nice.

New comers don't know HTML that well ant they especially don't know they can include "all" in a multiple post. You are not a newcomer. What was the last name you used before getting banned the last time ? what is your average time before getting banned ? just curious.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Good. You got him. You also emphasized the general UN language I brought up with respect to 'self defense.'

[Tree of Liberty]

In terms of real-politik, It was necessary to include that in order to appease Turkey, which also has a large disdain for the Kurds, which I admittedly don't quite get. It's one of the rare areas of common interests shared by the allies and Iraq.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Reading your posts is giving ME gas.

[Rokke]

It has been a breach since 1991. Again, I don't imagine this will change the current timeline. We'll see.