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Feds Open 'Total' Tech Spy System
Wired News ^ | 8/7/02 | Eliot Borin

Posted on 11/15/2002 10:17:28 AM PST by ksen

Edited on 06/29/2004 7:09:32 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Had Winston Churchill been alive in the months subsequent to Sept. 11 he might well have described U.S. intelligence agencies' performance prior to the attack thusly: Never have so many known so much and done so little.

On Wednesday, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) will begin awarding contracts for the design and implementation of a Total Information Awareness (TIA) system.


(Excerpt) Read more at wired.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 1984; bigbrother; privacylist; techindex
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To: HEY4QDEMS
Note to self...get there anf buy oracle before HEY4QDEMS drives the price up further.
41 posted on 11/15/2002 1:47:48 PM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Travis McGee
The term "agents" in item #11 refers to software agents--basically, things like the "bots" used by altavista, google, and infoseek to catalog the Web. The idea here is to make these programs smarter at finding certain categories of information.

#5 isn't just looking at a crowd of people--it's looking at things like financial transactions ("Why is 'Islam Without Borders,' an group supposedly engaged in humanitarian relief efforts, buying enough ammonium nitrate to fertilize every farm state of Kansas, enough fuel oil to heat every house in Canada for a week, and renting 1,728 Ryder trucks, all at the same time?")

I don't know if this idea will work. Technically, it's a daunting challenge. Assuming the techies do their jobs...then the folks who OPERATE this system will have to know what they're doing.

42 posted on 11/15/2002 1:48:32 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Travis McGee
Bookmarked. Scary. Consider how much aviation advanced in one century, IT and potentially AI 100 years from now, it will be a strange society.
43 posted on 11/15/2002 1:56:57 PM PST by TEXASPROUD
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To: Travis McGee
Thanks Travis. This stuff all sounds good when it is going to be used against our enemies, but what happens when the next Clinton takes office?

Remember the FBI's Project Meggido? This could easily be turned onto the American people. All that would be needed is to classify groups out of favor with political leadership as terrorist groups.

44 posted on 11/15/2002 1:59:19 PM PST by ksen
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To: TEXASPROUD
Suggested reading: Marooned in Realtime by Vernor Vinge. Science fiction, but it deals extensively with the issues you mentioned. (Best if you get the collection Across Realtime from Baen Books--you should be able to find it in a used bookstore.)

Also, look up The Collected Short Stories of Vernor Vinge, published last year in hardcover and in quality paperback this year. (Your library should have it.) Again, lots of discussion of this issue, and it makes for some fascinating science fiction.

45 posted on 11/15/2002 2:01:54 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
#5 isn't just looking at a crowd of people--it's looking at things like financial transactions ("Why is 'Islam Without Borders,' an group supposedly engaged in humanitarian relief efforts, buying enough ammonium nitrate to fertilize every farm state of Kansas, enough fuel oil to heat every house in Canada for a week, and renting 1,728 Ryder trucks, all at the same time?")

So do you think the IAO would identify a group of people and watch whatever they do for patterns consistent with potential terrorist activity, or would they look at everything for terroristic patterns and then see what group is behaving that way?

46 posted on 11/15/2002 2:03:03 PM PST by ksen
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To: ksen
Glenn Beck has had some excellent shows lately. That's not George Washington's eye atop the pyramid.
47 posted on 11/15/2002 2:06:10 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: TEXASPROUD; Poohbah; ksen
100 years from now, it will be a strange society.

If we still have a society, and not small groups of nomadic hunter gatherer survivors, (or alternately half human borgs with numbers on their half composite foreheads).

48 posted on 11/15/2002 2:06:32 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: ksen
So do you think the IAO would identify a group of people and watch whatever they do for patterns consistent with potential terrorist activity, or would they look at everything for terroristic patterns and then see what group is behaving that way?

It works a lot more effectively if you do the latter as opposed to the former.

Your concerns are very well placed, but they ignore the fundamental issue that any technology can be misused for good or evil purposes, and that if it can be done (which I am by no means sure will be the case), it will be done at some point. It's kind of hard to tuck the mushroom-shaped cloud back into the bomb casing and say "Whoopsie! Maybe we shouldn't've done that!"

49 posted on 11/15/2002 2:08:35 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Travis McGee
"Scary as hell and will quickly be misused by the government" bump.


50 posted on 11/15/2002 2:09:58 PM PST by Joe Brower
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To: ksen; Poohbah
Data mining is light years more sublte and far reaching than looking for big sales of fertilizer etc.

It detects anomolous patterns that make utterly no sense on the surface level.

It is already used by catalog companies who on phone orders present you at the end with "specials" that the computer whips up just for you. Their acceptance rate on customers buying the spur of the moment "specials" has gone from under 10% to about 75% since they have begun using advanced algorithms which make seem to make no sense at all. That's just one example of how Mad Ave uses this technology to target specific consumers, and now this govt agency wants to take it to entire new levels in the war on terror.

51 posted on 11/15/2002 2:13:05 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
True enough.

The problem is integrating all of these different databases. That's a nontrivial problem. The next problem is the government being at all effective in putting those algorithms together. I just do not see that happening on as subtle a level as you describe.

52 posted on 11/15/2002 2:15:43 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
We'll see. I just think that it's further along than you do.
53 posted on 11/15/2002 2:20:46 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: ksen
9) Story telling, change detection, and truth maintenance

If they hook the SinkEmperor up to their "truth maintenance" system, there'll be an explosion so big they'll think al-Qaeda smuggled in a nuke.

54 posted on 11/15/2002 2:23:09 PM PST by steve-b
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To: steve-b; Travis McGee
"Truth maintenance" on the SinkEmperor would consist of hooking his ding-a-ling to a couple of wires...

...that are in turn connected to the output from Grand Coulee Dam :o)

55 posted on 11/15/2002 2:27:06 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Travis McGee
Most LEGAL folks in the U.S. - would be shocked to learn how much the "Feds" ALREADY have on file about them..

Personally, I don't have a problem with the Feds learning at least as much about the illegals or those with illegal intentions... ie, terrorism.

Going a step forward -- I think we will have to accept a VERY high tech National Identity Card... Think super Passport.
At present there are uncountable "aliens" in our nation - with more in mind than economic opportunity... We need some tools to work that problem... If you have been following the reports - most of the Islamic terrorists have MULTIPLE I.Ds, Passports, Driving Licensees - etc.....
This country will NEED a fail safe technique for KNOWING exactly who is who.....and are they legally in this country..

No country in the world has such unprotected borders or inviting rewards for the bastards from the Turd World that have already shit in their own sand boxes.

After the NEXT major attack on the U.S., with 100K+ killed - or vast territory contaminated with radio active material ----- there will be a bloody and mandatory requirement to get all "illegal or suspect aliens" out of the country.. Immediatly --- and to round up the "suspect citizens".

We're great at being "reactive"....time to be "proactive".. Mistakes in today's world, with today's weapons --- are VERY costly in lives...

Another "clinton" can't be elected for another 6 years if we're lucky or still here... Better do something now - while the Adults still in charge....
Semper Fi

56 posted on 11/15/2002 3:14:42 PM PST by river rat
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To: Poohbah
From what we've heard.... there is room enough on Clinton's wee winky for nothing larger that a very small "roach clip" to carry the charge....clearly inadequate in every respect.

A better plan would be to shove a 2" rod up his ass as the conductor...You can complete the circuit with battery terminal type clamp on his coke enlarged nose.....
Semper Fi

57 posted on 11/15/2002 3:21:06 PM PST by river rat
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To: river rat
I agree about the nat card, but that is heresy to state on FR.
58 posted on 11/15/2002 6:04:56 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
You reach a point in life....where you don't give a %&*%& what people think about you or what you say...

It becomes THEIR problem....not mine.

Semper Fi
59 posted on 11/15/2002 7:11:19 PM PST by river rat
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To: river rat
Yup. That's a major sub theme in my book. Most of the resistors are over 50, remember the freedom we used to have, and don't give a damn and will fight, knowing the next generations won't.
60 posted on 11/16/2002 12:50:33 AM PST by Travis McGee
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