Peggy Noonen: "Them" [one group for whom liberals have no tolerance at all]

Wall Street Journal ^ | Nov 15, 2002 | Peggy Noonen

[The Raven]

There's a lot to think about this week--the rise of Nancy Pelosi, the meaning of the Republican triumph--but my thoughts keep tugging toward a group of people who are abused, ostracized and facing a cold winter. It's not right what we do to them, and we should pay attention.

[laredo44]

You've misrepresented my position from the first post.

Sir or Madam: Apparently, we have miscommunicated from the first post. I take that as my fault and will again attempt to make myself understood.

you've refused to read the damn posts I've made

Contrary to what you believe, I've read every word of your posts before making any rely to you. I believe your postition is something akin to, you're not as extreme as the most zealous anit-smokers and think it is quite all right for smokers to be quaranteed from polite society as opposed to being banned entirely.

You've called me a prohibiter, when all I have said is that a room(or in restaurants a section) should be set aside for smokers.

This is the crux of our disagreement. You say a room should be set aside. I say it's entirely up to the owner. You say you are called anti-freedom when you petition the owner to set aside a room for smokers. I say, not by me you aren't. I only say those who petition government to require the owner to set aside a room for smokers are anti-freedom. Am I being clear?

do what you want outside

Ironically, this is where I could be pursuaded to ban smoking, if by outside you mean public spaces. There, the public is the owner, and if they choose to say no smoking in Central Park, for example, I mightn't oppose that - really haven't thought about it much.

but don't force your ridiculous beliefs that smokers are somehow the ultimate conservatives on me, OK?

Ms. Noonan's assertion, not mine.

[laredo44]

And, ironically, it was ALWAYS the smoking cars on the commuter trains which would forever be barely occupied, while 80% of the rest of us riders were crammed shoulder-to-shoulder in the non-smoking cars of the trains, packed like sardines for the entire commuter ride to the City.

This is a lie.

It is the mark of a meddler. They always, always lie. Incredibly, they'll pile on Al Gore for embellishing, or Dick Gephart talking about his billionaire friend not wanting a tax cut, but never make the connection to themselves. They are the enemy.

[metesky]

I read all of the posts made by cinFLA on this thread and only one comes close to being a personal attack.

To: laredo44

And you do not. The term psychosomatic come to mnd.

And you are so brain-dead and addicted and ignorant. That is why smokers will be relegated to less and less space. Your attitude will force more and more laws.

161 posted on 11/15/2002 1:59 PM EST by cinFLA
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To: Gabz

We're not going away and the pendulum will swing and the backlash against you nannies is not going to be a pretty sight.

But your numbers are dying off. Of course, you like to recruit the kids since that is where MOST smokers start smoking. Shame on you.

163 posted on 11/15/2002 2:01 PM EST by cinFLA
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To: Republic of Texas

Most smokers I know would tell young people NOT to smoke. Most smokers I know would tell young people NOT to smoke.

We even have FR's on here saying smoke is good for kids!

179 posted on 11/15/2002 2:42 PM EST by cinFLA
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To: metesky

Further, I'm not willing to cede my liberty to your psychosis.

Ah, but day by day the anti-smoking crusade rolls over the defeated.

197 posted on 11/15/2002 4:02 PM EST by cinFLA
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To: laredo44

Smokers stink and smoking kills.

210 posted on 11/15/2002 4:35 PM EST by cinFLA
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To: CharacterCounts

Your attitude and arrogance typify the main proplems with this country. That is we have become a nation of self absorbed pissants and bullying busybodys. Not satisfied with the sterlile little existence, you must ruin the lifes of all around you.

295 posted on 11/15/2002 11:17 PM EST by cinFLA
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To: Gabz

Smokers stink and smoking kills.

296 posted on 11/15/2002 11:19 PM EST by cinFLA
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To: CharacterCounts

My guess is, failing to derive fulfillment in your own life, you obtain vicarious enjoyment from cheerleading the denial of the enjoyment of life to others

My guess is that as a teenager you had such low esteem that you turned to cigarettes to be accepted by your peers. Now you have turned bitter since you cannot dump the disgusting habit which has turned your ex-friends against you.

297 posted on 11/15/2002 11:22 PM EST by cinFLA
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To: Leisler

Unlike you. You shallow, weak, pathetic, sniveling little piece of oxygen thieving degenerative simp

Is that the type of language you mastered with your teenage smoking peers?

298 posted on 11/15/2002 11:24 PM EST by cinFLA
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To: Leisler

Ask anyone in the house, I’m sure they’ll rush to help you.

We don't have to help you. Your coke, horse and tobacco will put you in an early grave.

301 posted on 11/15/2002 11:30 PM EST by cinFLA
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---

To: Leisler

smoking stinks and smokers kill.

302 posted on 11/15/2002 11:36 PM EST by cinFLA
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The guy you have been wasting your time defending is a mean little prick who somehow feels it his duty to get on all the smoking/property rights threads and bang the drum for state intervention. He also likes to insult people and then whine when he gets better than he gives.

This has been going on since before your recent arrival here and it would do you some benifit to review the situation before jumping in to defend a statist twirp.

I looked up some of your posts on other threads and you seem like a decent guy.

I've put up with these small minded statists for years and now just attack them right out of the box. They never answer the property rights question and imply that they must be accomodated in all situations and that we (smokers) are SOL.

T'aint so.

[Madame Dufarge]

read all of the posts made by cinFLA on this thread and only one comes close to being a personal attack. Actually, cinFLA has shown a considerable amount of restraint on this thread given the amount of personal attacks aimed at him/her.

There's a prodigious body of work out there by the esteemed author regarding the subject at hand.

Search for it, or not.

I've seen no evidence of restraint; indeed, denigrating smokers, wrapping herself in a cloak of smugness, appears to be an avocation.

Dig in and defend her, your choice.

Getting bogged down in the subject is becoming tiresome.

[Leisler]

I am not aware of anything that cinFlA, Simon, et al have said they have done which refutes your characterization of them as cowards. Oh yea, they’re a real crew of risk takers, in anything these anti’s. Mountain climbing, gas breathing wreck divers, solo oceanic sailors, not. Well, maybe roofers, or grease covered rebuilders of ‘60s muscle cars, bow and arrow bear hunters. Not. Nothing in their post illuminates anything but risk aversion and very, very safe, mild slow paced lives. ( Why do I get the idea, that if you ever had dinner at their house (lots of white sauce, boiled chicken and mushy vegetables) they’d break out the slide projector to show you their lateist Motor Coach tour. 10 days, 363 pictures.

These fey, pale souls, uniformly lead lives of mouse like scurrying from one distant threat to another. Their strong card, such as it is, is that,” well (insert prissy lip sound here) it….it…..STINKS! (hands on hips, head tilted)”If we are Falstaffs of life, they are Shylocks of life.

[Phaedrus]

...why shouldn't I assert phony facts? The other side does.

Our National Poet and Treasure drives another stake through the heart of Liberal Adolescence.

[laredo44]

That I have never bashed smokers or advocated changing public policy to limit the rights of smokers.

So what have you posted that is pissing these people off so much? Any idea?

[Phaedrus]

An oblique "take" on Peggy's piece: the Libs, having banned God and Sin from the public consciousness, now find they have to invent it. Is there a "religious impulse"?

[laredo44]

and smoking kills.

Not me it doesn't. In fact, a new study concludes I gain lung cancer immunity from exposure to second hand smoke. I hereby demand my rights to this benefit and request you cease your efforts to deny me my rights.

[Phaedrus]

...the anti-smoking crusade...

Interesting...

[Phaedrus]

Oh yeah, I'm a smoker -- AND/BUT (pun intended) I'll stack my productivity up against any non-smoker. The nicest thing, though, is that I work for myself and my paychecks are alright, Thank You Very Much -- I both like nicotine and can afford it. I do not maintain that it's good for my health and I don't abuse those around me who might be offended by my habit. But they have no right to intrude upon my space, either. Prissy non-smokers need to get a life.

[Leisler]

The impulse is more fundamental than religion. If not religion, then Marxism or Healthism....anything to fill the big scary void they find in the usual hum-drum events of life. We're right back to the dim fire in the cave, predators-lurk-in-the-darkness consciousness. Back of the brain, lower brain stem stuff.

I honestly don't believe they FEEL smoke, and smoking is so much a risk and terror, as much as anything that has a life force of any amount of gusto. In their soul, knowing that they are weak and that they positivly radiate fear (maybe this is what they smell all the time?) they see confident people as possible preditors.

[Phaedrus]

There is a definite correlation between fear/insecurity and Liberalism -- also between adolescence and Liberalism.

[Just another Joe]

Your attitude and arrogance typify the main proplems with this country. That is we have become a nation of self absorbed pissants and bullying busybodys. Not satisfied with the sterlile little existence, you must ruin the lifes of all around you.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
You do realize that you have just described, almost, every anti-smoker out there including yourself.

[metesky]

I wish I had the talent and the time to have archived all the smoking threads, so newcomers could see the pattern develop.

A thread gets posted concerning a new restriction on smoking or another gub'mint grab at smokers' wallets, we gather to colectively mourn the loss of communal places (bars and restaurants), the placement of special taxes on our leprous heads and the further gub'mint grab from the property rights bundle, and the same suspects show up time after time to heap scorn and ridicule on us, mouthing things they would never dare to say face to face, like cinFLA's constantly mouthing, "Smoking kills, neener, neener!"

Well no sh!t, Dick Tracey! We know the odds, we know the risks and we choose to live with them. The majority of us will go out of our way to accomodate non-smokers if they are polite, but if the going gets rough, the gloves are off.

I, for one, have never said anything on this forum that I wouldn't gladly say to someone's face.
;O)

[CharacterCounts]

My guess is that as a teenager you had such low esteem that you turned to cigarettes to be accepted by your peers.

I don't smoke! I also don't feel the need to try to control those that chose to do.

You see, I have a life.

They have a life...

And, you need to get one.

[CharacterCounts]

You do realize that you have just described, almost, every anti-smoker out there including yourself.

LOL

She was qouting verbatim from my post to her at #260.

That was the best retort she could come up with.