Western Victories Over Islamic Hordes

11/14/02 | Sparta

[Sparta]

I am trying to compile a list of Islamic defeats since the beginning of that disgraceful religion. This is to try to prove that Muslim soldiers really are not that scary. The West has consistently kicked Islam's a$$ since its beginning. Please post examples of this religion's stellar military performance. (links to websites welcome)

[RLK]

but don't tell me there is nothing subjective about one individual's interpretation of History even if he teaches at Harvard or U of Chicago.

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What the hell's wrong with you. Al Dershowitz teaches at Harvard? How could anyone doubt someone from Harvard?

[jdege]

The Islamic terrorist groups were and are being cultivated and funded by Middle Eastern governments seeking political control, in an attempt to keep them from overthrowing the Middle Eastern governments.

Which attempts have failed quite often.

(Remember Sadat?)

[Wombat101]

jdege is right, but I submit for your further cogitation:

Isn't is possible that SOME Arab regimes fund terrorism for another purpose, i.e. keeping the West busy whilst they try to take on Israel again? What I'm trying to say is that should a war against Israel get out of hand (meaning Israel is on the verge of losing (as if!)) and Western powers (i.e the United States) step in, even the combined might of the Arab states could not keep the U.S. from reversing the situation. Jackals do not attack lions one-on-one, they gang up and attack from all directions (thanks to Tom Clancy for the analogy). The possibility that one of these groups could some day pose a threat to the government that feeds them is a risk many may be willing to take.

[RLK]

But some fundamentalist Christians handle snakes as well.

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And they are as nuts as Islamics, but not as aggressive.

I'm not particulary fond of much of what is in the Bible. That's why I am not a Christian or a Jew. Your bull shit of attempting to bring the bible in on this falls flat with me.

Islam is a self-perpetuating aggressive psychosis bent on imposing itself upon the world. Period.

"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

seem perfectly clear. It is also historically clear that those commandments have been put into practice whenever possible for close to 1,500 years. Anyone who does not distance themselves from such a religion or whatever it is, is my mortal enemy. You don't get any slack at my house.

Have you got it yet?

[RLK]

Isn't is possible that SOME Arab regimes fund terrorism for another purpose? ---------------------------

It sure is. And they take the money to use it for their established purpose.

"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

The fact that they can get funding for it doesn't change their intent.

[Mamzelle]

Curious that they don't raise a conventional army for this jihad? (Hussein is secular, at least by Islamic standards)

I mean a huge, threatening manforce that they are capable of raising.

Instead they strap bombs on teenages and send them into pizza parlors. ...

Does this look as hesitant and ineffectual to you as it does to me?

[Dallas]

Forget the west for a moment....

On May 14, 1948, the day Israel declared its independence, the armies of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq (supplied by the Soviet Union) invaded Israel with the intent of destroying it. Israel had no weaponery to speak of, and literally used picks/shovels in the beginning. Yet, they kicked the crap out of the Arabs.

On June 5, 1967, the Six Day War broke out between Israel, and Egypt/Syria/Jordan. Within six days, Israeli forces broke through the enemy lines and were in a position to march on Cairo, Damascus and Amman. Only a U.N. sponsored cease­fire stopped the massacre. Israel kept the Sinai Penninsula, and the Golan Heights, PLUS Jerusalem for its spoils.

Since that time, Israel invades Lebanon whenever it wants, and stomps the Syrian Army just for good measure.

[RLK]

Does this look as hesitant and ineffectual to you as it does to me?

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For a month a guy named Muhammad kept the Washington D. C. area tied up in knots with a sniper rifle. I notice the absence of several buildings from the N. Y. skyline. The Philipines are tied in knots. Bali took a hit. Indonesia is in turmoil. The Islamics have lost noting of seriousness. You ain't seen nothing yet. I'd say their tactics are very effectual.

[LS]

Er, actually Alexander didn't even defeat "Arab" armies, per se, but PERSIAN armies. But, that aside, the Muslims had their heads handed to them by the Mongols, many times. Hanson remains the best analysis of these points of comparison.

The Bible says that you can't get good fruit from a bad tree---something akin to the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree. So history is always useful for these comparisons, and to say that modern Islam bears no resemblance to the older forms is PRECISELY the point: it does, in almost every way. Islam has never changed, and that is why it is so dangerous. It is still a violent religion, and always has been.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Heston played the part of El Cid in the 1962 movie. Definitly worth watching! El Cid makes the Knights of the round table look like sissies!

[uncbuck]

Most of those areas you mentioned are no longer in moslem hands.

[Burdened White Man]

Anyone who does not distance themselves from such a religion or whatever it is, is my mortal enemy. You don't get any slack at my house. Have you got it yet?

Yeah, I've got it. You're uninformed, closed-minded and rude!

[Kaiwen]

Try reading that in context:

2:190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah does not love transgressors.

2:191. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they first fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who supress faith.

Read in context, they're talking about a defensive war against non-Muslims who had oppressed them and expelled them from Mecca.

As for Surah 8:12, Allah is talking to the angels, not Muslims.

[RLK]

...and my mother wears combat boots.

[RLK]

"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

What would it take for you to accept the possibility that people mean what they say and know more about what they say than you tell me you know what they say? Why should I believe you rather than the commandments of their religion and 1,500 years of history?

[RLK]

You're going to try to sell me some bullcrap too? It isn't going to work. Context? These clowns have killed millions throughout history, and continue to do do. Every Muslim nation is a God damned authoritarian rathole. Do you believe the quotes I provided are the only ones available?

[mark the shark]

In reference to your bee hive analogy, could'nt we gas them , kind of like using smoke on bees?
Sorry, I know this is a serious thread, but my mind instantly took off into the macabre when I read that. ;)

[Kaiwen]

If you're going to pull quotes at random, at least provide the context. Cuting and pasting to suit an agenda is exactly what the fundamentalists do to prove their point, too.