Democratic Well-Spring of ideas?

[agooga]

Hello All:

This is my first post on Free Republic and I have a little tale to tell as to why I am here.

I am a registered small-L libertarian, meaning I actually support some very liberal ideas as well as some very conservative ideas. I was a registered democrat all of my life until about 4 years ago when I could no longer use the power of self-hypnosis to ignore what was happening in the Clinton White House and politics in general.

I believe I have attained a very nice intellectual balance of critical thinking, observation and quest for facts that constitue the issues which frame my new ideology.

I have read many knowledgeable writers of current conservative thinking, Milton Freidman, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell to name a few.

In all fairness, I have now begun to seek out the great minds of the political left, so that I can make my own judgements- put their arguments on trial against the ideas of others. I am seeking the best, most informed, cogently written, fact based, backed up, credible sources of liberal thought.

A friend suggested I log on to the Democratic Underground- not necessarily to read the posts there, because they're arguably too biased and ill-researched, but to actually post this question in a forum and solicit the DU-ers to point me in the direction of their best minds- in any format: radio, books, films, television, speeches, essays- doesn't matter.

I logged onto the DU, obtained a password, and having read the terms, acknowledged that if I were to post anything obviously partisan, I might be banned. Of course, that was not my intention.

However, as I composed my message, essentially stating that I was a libertarian seeking their guidance in my quest for knowledge; before I could actually even post my message, I received a message from the DU saying that my posting privilages had been revoked! I had been banned before I could even seek their honest council. I was disgusted! And actually saddened.

Honestly, I was only vaguely aware of the Free Republic until I went onto the DU site. Apparently there is a flame war between your two sites and they are extremely paranoid of any "FReepers" posioning their water.

So because, the democrats don't seem to be willing to answer this question, I'd like to put it forth to you: Where is their stockpile of substance and ideas? From where does it flow. Who are the "greaat minds" that, if not actually lead the party, at least back it up with the facts, stats and examples?

I am absolutely serious here. I know it's not your jobs to be aware of their sources- but it can be a good excersize for all of us to attempt to really learn about the other side.

As for me, when I was a democrat, I didn't read about politics or engage in critical debate, so I'm left with a void.

Can you help?

Jeffrey Pedersen

[canadiancapitalist]

John Kenneth Galbraith, socialist economist

[slouch-no-more]

Welcome to FR! So, you're looking for a great liberal mind, eh? Well, Jeffrey, since you've spent some time at DU, then you're aware that almost all liberals simply adore Al Gore and Hillary Clinton. So.... read "Earth in the Balance". Then read "It takes a Village". When you're finished with these two volumes, you will understand the liberal "stockpile of substance and ideas".

Then come back here for a reality check!

[andrew]

Well, if you go to college they will fill you to the gills with a bunch of 'social critics' collectively known as the Frankfurt School. They are known as Social Marxists, and had huge influence in affecting American culture. I would argue for the worse.

They basically took the economic theories of Marx and Hegel and applied them to social constructs.

Among the most important of these thinkers associated with this movement are Antonio Gramsci, Herbert Marcuse, Theodor Adorno.

Michel Foucault and Jacques Derrida are major figures of the modern left who drew upon the Franfurtites. Mention any of the above names at college faculty cocktail party and watch eyes light up.

While I disagree with all of the above with every fiber of my being, they are clearly smart fellas whose works and ideas are the tools by which the left helps shape mass opinion.

Study Marcuse's infleunce in shaping anti-Vietnam War sentiment, specifically his coining of the slogan "Make Love, Not War".

Upon getting up to speed with these intellectual deviants, you will see why the left is made up of so many activist groups broken down by identity politics. It becomes so transparent that a cultural conspiracy of mammoth proportions has taken place, it may take you a few days to beckon the courage to walk outside for a few days.

[Bush2000]

Your experience at DU is a just a reflection of liberal thinking in general. They will not tolerate discussion which conflicts with their world view. Why? Because they know, in their hearts, that their political view lie on a faulty foundation; that is, they cannot defend them with logic and, therefore, their only recourse is to fall back on censoring you or making emotional appeals which have little or nothing to do with reality. They can't defend the fact that the Great Society introduced by FDR hasn't succeeded in wiping out poverty, even though we've spent 60-some years and trillions of dollars trying. They can't defend harebrained income redistribution schemes that result in a staggeringly unfair tax burden from those with higher incomes. They can't defend their constant attempts to assert Constitutional rights that simply don't exist in the Constitution (see Roe v. Wade and tell me where privacy was every asserted as a fundamental right by the Founders). They can't defend their attempts to ban firearms, bleed corporate America for (gasp) being successful, establish a nationalized health care system, assert government ownership of private property on the basis of fraudulent environmental policy, obstruct alternate domestic energy sources, protect unions at the expense of our children and the economy, or redirect military spending to their cockamamie social programs. The list goes on and on and on ...

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

...everyone who votes Libertarian in effect has the same effect as taking a vote away from the Republican, which is the same as voting for the doomacrat.

Everyone who votes Libertarian in effect are voting for the Libertarian. Period.

[stands2reason]

Democrat ping! Can you guys help?

[freeeee]

Those are not liberal issues, they are CONSTITUTIONAL issues. That they're endorsed by liberal groups is irrelevant.

I know that and you know that, but some liberals like to pretend those are their issues. This is especially easy for them to do when their Republican opponents are trying to undermine those rights which unfortunately happens all too often.

agooga may have fallen for their trick.

[Bush2000]

Some liberals defend freedom of speech, and assembly, and the 4th 5th and 6th Amendments. In fact, the ultra-liberal ACLU has defended these (although selectively and imperfectly) for years.

The ACLU has also defended the right of convicted pedophiles and rapists to keep their whereabouts hidden from public view upon release. Let's not kid ourselves: This organization consists of anti-American vermin. They care more dearly for the rights of pedophiles, murderers, rapists, homosexuals, etc than the rights of the average citizen.

[stands2reason]

Heidegger, J. Derrida, Gramsci, Chomsky. Michel Foucault, especially. Disinfect first before reading.

[SteveH]

Perhaps you should start by acquainting yourself with what you label yourself to be, a little-l libertarian.

Suggest checking out the Cato Institute, Ludwig Von Mises, Ron Paul, etc.

By the time you get through with these, and if you hold true to your label, you will get a view of the liberal agenda and primary thinking that ought to be repulsive. If you really want to pursue it, you should check out Karl Marx and FDR to start, maybe follow up with John Dewey and the Humanists.

Or you can go around to the liberals' back door and check out Clinton's Georgetown professor Carroll Quigley and relevant sections of his book "Tragedy and Hope" for eye openers on the hidden aspects of the liberal agenda.

[js1138]

And don't expect everyone here to agree on anything.

[MarkL]

Maybe David Korn too... Although I'm not sure of his political leanings, he often comes across as liberal.

Of course Radical Son would make good reading as the story of someone coming from socialism to conservatism.

You're right: Christopher Hitchens is a wonderful writer, and he's a man who sticks to his convictions. I rarely agree with his opinions, but I do respect him.

Mark

[freeeee]

I'm not an ACLU member, so I won't defend them. Fact is they've done some good work and some bad work.

The good work they do will lead some to beleive liberals support constitutional issues. That's all I was trying to say.

[The Other Harry]

If you consider yourself to be a libertarian, don't leave Ayn Rand off your reading list. That's pretty much required stuff.

[SwinneySwitch]

Where have all the liberals gone, long time passing?
Where have all the liberals gone, long time ago?
Where have all the liberals gone?
Gone to graveyards, everyone.
Oh, when will they ever learn?
Oh, when will they ever learn?

[HamiltonJay]

Honestly,

The best, most articulate orator for the conservative viewpoint and constitutional constructed republic, IMHO is Alan Keyes. I view him as the conscience of the Republican Party. I think without question it is men like Dr. Keyes who keep the Republican party from completely losing its moral compass... and personally I think that is exactly why the democrats have become such a sad sad shadow of a party, they have no conscience, no voice who calls their leaders on their follies, no one who stands up to against the tide for what's right, when the DNC and leadership shoot for the politically expedient.

There is a fundamental difference about "ideas" between conservatives and liberal thinking... liberals in the modern sense are trying to promote ideals that generally betray thousands of years of history and experience...so they have to truly "present and idea"... Though anymore I think the liberals/dems are not even about a "socialist paradise" even that is too lofty for their limited intellect... it is more a goal of cultural marxism.

Conservatives, have history on their side... Conservatives aren't out to paradym shift the nation, if anything conservatives sometimes are too cautious for their own good. When they are that is when they tend to be beaten. Many of the issues the Democratic party made its strides upon in this century (at least pre 1965) were things the Republicans surrendered to them... because they were indeed locked into the status quo. In the latter half of the 1900s, they basically became demonized over things like the environment, because they were locked into the pockets of companies, and touted the line, too expensive. Yes, there was and still is a lot of loopy wackos out there on that topic, but there is a lot of real issues on this topic as well.

I honestly have found every few left writers who put together any sort of argument beyond pandering regurgitation of the DNC talking points. People like Eleanor Clift hasn't written a coherent sentence in over a decade, let alone put forth a valid argument for the lefts viewpoint. Most of the people who founded the modern leftward movement, have become disgusted and disenfranchised by what the Democrats have become, and the left as a whole. Anyone with any modecum of experience and thinking ability, cannot put forth the notion that 4 planes being used as missles, killing thousands of civilians is somehow just deserts or morally equivalent to use foreign policy toward the middle and far east... yet that is exactly what the left is and does.

The left is no longer a party that believes in america, or loves america, it is a haven for those who hate and wish to destroy this nation. They are only able to see the failings of this nation, and refuse to understand and recognize that this is the greatest nation that the world has ever seen... our society and influences dominate the planet not because we are overbearing ogres... we don't force countries at the point of a gun to let in TV or McD's or Levi's... they invite our way of life in, because our way of life creates prosperity and wealth.... We aren't evil, we have power, but are not immoral in its usage, we give more to help around the world than any nation ever has, hell even at war, we drop food for the civilians stuck in the middle... The left is just full of people who simply hate america... not all of them of course, but the activists and hard core individuals want nothing more than see her destroyed.

[Snuffington]

Where is their stockpile of substance and ideas? From where does it flow. Who are the "greaat minds" that, if not actually lead the party, at least back it up with the facts, stats and examples?

It is truly difficult to answer that, because the Democratic Party (and I don't mean this as an insult, just an observation) isn't terribly driven by substance and ideas anymore. Those were largely settled for them decades ago with the New Deal, Civil Rights, and Great Society. Not a lot of fresh new ideas left for them, other than working out the details of implementing more of the same.

To find good sources for the sort of information you're asking for, I'd investigate some leftist contrarians like Christopher Hitchens or Camille Paglia. They have a much greater sense of self-examination than the more common ideologues, and freely spout out plenty of sources of information supporting and refuting leftist positions.

For day-to-day mainstream Democratic agenda, you can rely upon the New York Times, and Washington Post editorial pages.

[Snuffington]

Maybe David Korn too... Although I'm not sure of his political leanings, he often comes across as liberal.

David Korn is an avowed socialist. He's about as far left as a liberal gets short of sending politcal opponents to the gulag.

[Badger1]

Since Liberalism is a philosophy based on emotion, you will be hard pressed to find anyone who advances "fact based, backed up, credible sources of liberal thought." The vast majority of liberal positions are emotional and not logical positions, and therefore, the vast majority of liberal thought is emotionally based and not fact based.

[The_Victor]

They can't defend the fact that the Great Society introduced by FDR hasn't succeeded in wiping out poverty, even though we've spent 60-some years and trillions of dollars trying.

I think The Great Society was LBJ's brain fart child. That would be trillions of dollars in only 30 years, and the number of people living in poverty after the government assistance, passed the projections ahead of schedule.