H-1B Study (All you US Citizen IT Workers are TOAST!)

U.S. House Judiciary Committee Testimony ^ | September 10, 2002 | Dr. Norman Matloff

[discostu]

I'm not having this argument with you over again. Drop it or I'll start smacking the abuse button. Or resurect that thread so I can ignore over there. This is a different thread and Dark_Lord deserves the courtesty of not having you take it over with your sillyness.

[FlyingA]

WOW folks, lets keep this thread going.

The H1b Hall of Shame

http://www.zazona.com/ShameH1B/

[FormerLurker]

Let's agree that any furthur discussion on the old topic belongs on the old thread. I think I've said what I needed to say here in relation to that.

Quick question that you can choose to answer either here or there. What is UT, IT, and ST in relation to QA?

[discostu]

There's the DB in question.

And I'd just like to note, inspite of all the vimn vigor and BS FL will put forth I have said MUTLTIPLE times that the most likely source for the bad data is DOL. But I do believe that Zazona, as the presenters, should note that there's some pretty oddball stuff in there (like a company with 300 employees worldwide applying for 3000+ H1Bs on the same day... don't matter how you slice it that's odd).

[FlyingA]

Your both making good points. so Let's not personalize
the issues. Lets back off from personalizing and see
if we all can keep this Thread going. Really, I think
it is very important to debate all the issues around H1B
Terrorizm links etc.

FlyingA

[discostu]

Oh look at you acting like the big man. I'm done with that topic, your cardiologist would probably recommend you be done with it too. The current topic is: what does the percentage of applicants hired have to do with anything, much less H1Bs? My belief: not a damn thing, most applicants (at least 90% in my experience) are rejected out of hand, with out even so much as a phone call, regardless of industry or "penetration" of foreign born workers in said industry.

As for your "quiz" on my work experience, I'll give you the same answer I give others: no. That's not the topic of discussion either. Especially a wide open job title related question like that where it all depends on how the company is organized.

[A. Pole]

Your both making good points. so Let's not personalize the issues. Lets back off from personalizing and see if we all can keep this Thread going.

I second that.

[FlyingA]

Ah Good. thanks Pole.

FlyingA

[FormerLurker]

From Automation Matrix

---

Automation Matrix Presents

An Analysis of the LCA Database

When a company wishes to import an H-1B worker, they must follow certain procedures. They must first file an LCA request. This single LCA request may contain a multiple number of Visa requests. Once the LCA request is certified, the company is free to submit individual Visa Petitions for each worker they import. They may submit as many Visa Petitions and import as many workers as were initially requested on the certified LCA. The individual Visa Petitions are then granted for each worker imported.

This statistics on this page reflect only the number of requests within certified LCA submissions, not the number of workers currently here. As soon as the government sees fit to provide the complete data on Visa Petition statistics, I will be happy to provide them here. For now, the government and other H-1B advocates like to keep us guessing. A preliminary investigation of these Visa Petition statistics may be found at:

Check Out the Visa Petition Statistics

Labor Condition Application Database

H-1B LCA Requests 10/1/1998 to 10/16/2001

H-1B LCA Requests Submitted

1,101,159

H-1B LCA Requests Certified

986,972

A single certified request may contain many Visa Requests.

Total H-1B Certified Visa Requests

4,075,021

Visa Start Date	Certified LCA Requests	H-1B Visa Requests
1998	58,134	298,246
1999	262,737	962,915
2000	396,181	1,489,591
2001	265,260	1,314,520
2002	4,399	9,416
Other	261	333

Top 15 Occupations Being Replaced

Occupation Title	H-1B Visa Requests
System Analysis and Programming	2,296,732
Therapists	202,633
Accountants, Auditors and Related	200,807
Other Computer Related	196,371
Electrical/Electronics Engineering	137,270
Other Architecture, Engineering and Surveying	77,859
Miscellaneous Managers and Officials	62,184
College and University Education	59,850
Other in Administrative Occupations	58,026
Miscellaneous Professional, Technical and Managerial	50,135
Physicians and Surgeons	47,948
Mechanical Engineering	46,071
Occupations in Economics	41,794
Budget and Management Systems Analysis	40,345
Data Communications and Networks	37,028

Top 15 Companies Requesting H-1B Visas

Employer Name	H-1B Visa Requests
Group One Therapy	169,666
PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP	87,096
Syntel, Incorporated	43,252
Deloitte Consulting LLC	38,252
Hps America Inc.	37,616
Langeveld Bulb Co., Inc.	32,000
Baton Rouge International Inc.	31,483
Continental Graphics Inc.	31,001
Ernst & Young LLP	26,392
The Metal Kitchen	25,000
Oracle Corporation	23,352
Cisco Systems Inc.	22,558
Tata Consultancy Services	22,128
Cap Gemini Ernst & Young US	19,255
Intel Corporation	18,586

Average H1B Salaries Under $100,000 for the Top 15 Occupations

Many have asked why I am averaging the salaries of those earning under $100,000 a year. The answer is, I was forced to choose a cutoff figure because of some ridiculous data in the database. One LCA asserted that the individual was to be paid 32 Million a year! Many others stated annual salaries of several million a year for more than one worker. Some may have been mistakes and some may have been submitted to bolster the average wage.

For this reason I am averaging only those annual wages below $100,000 a year. One may see from the final chart, that workers in most job categories average over 90% for salaries under the $100,000 limit. I have no doubt, that by excluding the ridiculously high figures, we gain a far more accurate picture of the average wage of over 90% of the workers.

The averages, based on the salaries within each LCA, are not necessarily what the imported worker received. No one checks to see if they are actually paid the salary listed on the submitted LCA.

Occupation Title	Salary
System Analysis and Programming	$55,447.94
Therapists	$43,735.86
Accountants, Auditors and Related	$43,433.79
Other Computer Related	$60,441.01
Electrical/Electronics Engineering	$60,888.15
Other Architecture, Engineering and Surveying	$58,362.49
Miscellaneous Managers and Officials	$58,811.84
College and University Education	$40,756.79
Other in Administrative Occupations	$44,078.79
Miscellaneous Professional, Technical and Managerial	$51,628.98
Physicians and Surgeons	$53,014.55
Mechanical Engineering	$52,016.39
Occupations in Economics	$47,148.15
Budget and Management Systems Analysis	$49,634.14
Data Communications and Networks	$55,797.50

Percent of H1B's with Salaries Under $100,000 for the Top 15 Occupations

Occupation Title	Percent
System Analysis and Programming	98%
Therapists	99%
Accountants, Auditors and Related	94%
Other Computer Related	97%
Electrical/Electronics Engineering	96%
Other Architecture, Engineering and Surveying	98%
Miscellaneous Managers and Officials	83%
College and University Education	96%
Other in Administrative Occupations	98%
Miscellaneous Professional, Technical and Managerial	86%
Physicians and Surgeons	59%
Mechanical Engineering	99%
Occupations in Economics	95%
Budget and Management Systems Analysis	92%
Data Communications and Networks	98%

HELP OUT!!!

Send a donation!!!

HELP SUPPORT this web page!!!

There are many existing organizations actively fighting the H-1B plan.

The Zazona Website Park - Get The Facts about H-1B at this website. This site has a huge selection of H-1B related research as well as letters of opinion about H-1B.

The LCA Database. A searchable database that contains thousands of U.S. companies who hire H-1Bs. You can view H-1B applications by company name, job category, location, and salary. Find out which companies are hiring foreign workers and for which kinds of jobs.

Petition to Abolish the H-1B Visa Program. Sign a petition to abolish the H1-B Visa Program. These petitions are collected and sent directly to Congress.

Petition to Abolish H-1B - Sign this petition to give Congress the message - NO MORE H-1B. This petition will go to Capitol Hill to give them our message.

A Guild of Professional Programmers - They have huge archives detailing the politics behind H-1B and why this program is destroying the scientific infrastructure in the U.S.

Numbers USA - Send free faxes to your politicians to protest H-1B. This organization takes up all aspects of legal and illegal immigration.

Other Links

Open Letter

Webmaster's note:

In the last ten years, I have worked with many H-1B's. Most have been from India and occasionally from China. I have found the majority to be intelligent, capable programmers who I enjoyed working with.

My gripe is not with the H-1B's, as I could never fault someone for taking advantage of an opportunity. In fact, I have admired many for traveling halfway around the world to do so, a prospect I would never consider.

My gripe is with the government, whose regulations have flooded the job market. My gripe is with the Corporations for bribing the government with campaign donations and convincing them to disregard their Citizen's best interests.

In line with this sentiment, please visit the Corporate Greed page.

Email Automation Matrix at Automation Matrix

[FormerLurker]

Especially a wide open job title related question like that where it all depends on how the company is organized.

Anybody involved in software understands the following terms;

Unit Tests
Integration Tests
System Tests

Anyone with a CS degree could tell you that...

[FormerLurker]

I just think charity begins at home

I don't anybody is looking for charity. We are just looking for work. We can do the job, and do as well or better than a H1-B. It is just impossible to get an interview, never mind a job offer.

[FlyingA]

I agree
Former Lurker, Hang in there, I'm in the same boat too.
Unfortunately, I don't think the Bush Administration
will help getting USA IT back on track.

More Later....

[FormerLurker]

The fact that a number of HR directors get together and share salary information, opens them up to charges of collusion to price fix.

One other thing they are guilty of is discrimination in their hiring practices, as they discriminate based on age and national origin. And of course, as far as ITAA, who has colluded and conspired to mislead Congress in order to have legislation enacted that would allow them to discriminate, I'd say they'd be guility of conspiracy to deny civil rights under color of law. That, the last time I checked, is a federal offense under US code, and is punishible by up to 10 years in prison. It is in fact a felony.

[luckystarmom]

I've been out of the high-tech industry while I raised my children. I was hoping to get a part-time job next year when they are in school full-time. However, I don't know if I'll be able to find a software company to hire me. I'm obsolete. I don't know what to do now. I feel like my college degree is a waste.

[FlyingA]

Well if we can proved that out, Let's put the Son of a B***tches in jail like the ENRON CEO's Upper uppity ups

[FormerLurker]

Unfortunately, I don't think the Bush Administration will help getting USA IT back on track.

I think ALL of us here should contact these organizations that are trying to lobby Congress to abolish H1-B. Perhaps this could go somewhere...

[FormerLurker]

Well if we can proved that out, Let's put the Son of a B***tches in jail like the ENRON CEO's

That is of course where many of them belong...

[FlyingA]

I agree FormerLurker. We need to Put Pressure on and continue to make this and other Threads like this
visible to some of out other Lurker friends.

Hannity, Oreily, Lott..........

I love Ann Coulter. Hi Ann.

FlyingA

[FormerLurker]

Isn't this against the law to specifically seek out foreign workers instead of American citizens? Anybody, any thoughts on the legality of this?

Since it is illegal to discriminate due to age, sex, race, religion, or national origin, I'd say that it IS illegal.

[FormerLurker]

A nice example of typical H1-B abuses.

Here's another little secret concerning H1-B workers..

New H1B Scandal - Tax Evasion!

From the above link;

"Visit most any large American company and you will find two people working on the same computer project. One is a permanent company employee who pays taxes through withholding. The other a temporary employee who enjoys the kind of payday that more than 100 million American workers can only dream about - a full paycheck with zero deductions. "Because they are employed by the consulting firm that recruited them, many of these foreign workers are paid either in cash or by check - and no money is withheld for U.S. income tax, Social Security, Medicare, state, or local taxes... Still others receive a paycheck that is banked in India, and, while they're living and working in this country, they're paid an 'allowance' that is also free of all U.S. taxes."

Barlett and Steele report that this practice first came to light in a lawsuit filed in 1990 by Tata Consultancy Services against Syntel Inc., accusing it of poaching employees. Not every Syntel programmer was paid this way, they say. Some eventually got on the payroll and had taxes withheld. "But court records show that for many, such is not the case. In this, Syntel is not alone." And they cite other examples.

Barlett and Steele add:

Where, you might ask, is the IRS in all of this? The answer is: Nowhere. "Immigration is a big problem for IRS," confided a former high-level Treasury Department official. "It doesn't know how to track foreign workers."