Putin tells reporter to 'get circumcised'

ABC News ^ | 11/12/02 | staff

[ppaul]

Russia's media expressed has shock over a remark by Russian President Vladimir Putin at the Russia-EU summit in which he urged a Western reporter asking about the war in Chechnya to come to Moscow and "get circumcised".

Mr Putin's comments, made at a closing press conference of the Russia-EU summit in Brussels, were played by TVS television station and republished by several major Moscow newspapers and Internet sites.

The Kommersant business daily reports Mr Putin was asked a Danish reporter why Russia was using mine warfare in the separatist North Caucasus republic and exterminating Chechen civilians.

Reports say Mr Putin became infuriated by the question and launched an unprecedented defence of the three-year Chechen war that at one stage went off on a tangent.

"You, if I am not mistaken, represent an ally [of the US war on terror] and are therefore in danger," Mr Putin told the reporter, according to a transcript that appeared in the Vremya Novostei daily.

"They [the Chechens] talk about killing non-Muslims and if you are a Christian, you are in danger. And even if you are an atheist, you are in danger," Mr Putin is quoting as saying.

"If you decide to become a Muslim - even then you are not safe, because traditional Islam contradicts the conditions and goals that they [the Chechens rebels] set.

"But if you are prepared to become the most radical Islamist and prepared to get circumcised - I invite you to Moscow.

"We have specialists that deal with this problem. I suggest that you do such an operation that nothing grows out of you again," Mr Putin reportedly said.

Mr Putin is known for his tough talk that at times becomes interlaced with slang used by criminals and the military.

He launched the war in the predominantly Muslim Chechen republic in October 1999 by threatening to "waste [the Chechens] while they sit in their outhouses".

Russian media say a Kremlin aide explained to reporters after the Brussels press conference that Mr Putin was tired during the summit after a hectic working schedule.

The wide coverage given to Mr Putin's remarks appears unusual for a Russian media that has grown to carefully toe the Kremlin line in recent months.

Advice dismissed

Meanwhile, Mr Putin has brushed aside European advice on a peaceful solution to the Chechen conflict, saying it had to be solved by the Russian and Chechen people alone.

"Of course we listen to advice from our colleagues in Europe," Mr Putin told a news conference in Oslo after talks with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, who said he hoped for a peaceful, political solution in Chechnya.

But he added: "It is an internal Russian problem to be solved between the Chechen people and the Russian federation."

Russia has scrapped plans for a partial military pullout from the southerly province since Chechen separatists took a Moscow theatre hostage last month.

The siege ended with the deaths of 128 hostages and 41 rebels.

"We don't want to turn up our noses and say that others' opinions are irrelevant," Mr Putin said.

But he added: "The problem is so complicated that no one can give really good advice."

Mr Putin said Europe had some good examples of conflict resolution but that other conflicts had rumbled on unsolved in other parts of Europe for hundreds of years.

Mr Putin has shown no sign of reining in the Russian military in Chechnya, where thousands of people have died in almost a decade of fighting.

Mr Putin has said a new constitution and elections offer the best prospects of a swift resolution.

"The political process on Chechnya must continue," Mr Schroeder said.

Mr Putin and Mr Schroeder met in Oslo because Mr Putin cancelled a planned visit to Germany last month during the theatre siege. Both men were, by coincidence, on visits to the Nordic nation.

Mr Schroeder and Mr Putin also said a UN resolution seeking to disarm Iraq offered a chance of peace.

Shortly afterwards, Iraq's parliament voted to reject the resolution while leaving the final decision to President Saddam Hussein.

Mr Putin said he hoped Arab countries would bring pressure on Iraq to comply.

Mr Putin said Moscow was keeping up contacts with Baghdad but that only Saddam knew what Iraq would finally decide.

Mr Schroeder reiterated on Monday that Germany would not take part in any US-led attacks on Iraq if Saddam failed to comply fully with the resolution.

Mr Schroeder won popularity before his re-election in September by ruling out sending troops.

[Dog Gone]

Thanks.

[LostTribe]

>Islam is evil.

No doubt about that.

[A. Pole]

Proud to be a circumcised male.

In Russia (and in Europe) main circumcised group are Muslims. Secular circumcision is something found only in America. Putin was speaking from Russian/European perspective.

[stuartcr]

On one hand, if there were no organised religions, then bad things would not be done in the name of God. On the other hand, there exists those people that want to do bad things, and use religions as justification.

[Henk]

Was this a female reporter? That puts another twist on it!

It must have been. That's really the only way it makes sense. By circumcision he refers to the barbaric practice of clitoral castration.

Man, Putin was cutting pretty deep there! (no pun).

[SwinneySwitch]

Give 'em hell, Vlad!

[Terriergal]

and their interpretation does not dictate that they should kill all non-Muslims. Everyone has feelings.

Then I should encourage/challenge them to really figure out whether they want to continue in Islam or what their motives are for sticking with it. It's just as bad as nominal Christians that go to church without really knowing what they believe.

Full text of Ramadan sermon transcript.

Excerpt from sermon:

"Jihad is Now a Personal Obligation of Every Muslim (Fardh 'Ayn)

"We know and believe, Oh Allah, that these hardships are a test for us and for our patience. We tell you, Oh Allah, that we are patient... and we will fight them with all kinds of weapons. Jihad, Jihad, Jihad, Jihad. Oh nation of the Koran, the nation of Muhammad, Oh Muslims: Jihad for the cause of Allah, and for defending Muhammad's holiness [sic]. Whoever does not defend Muhammad and the Koran, will not smell the aroma of paradise forever. What is the meaning of this peaceful slumber? What is the meaning of this numbness? What is the meaning of these hollow statements that do not rise to the level of the needed responsibility? Today, after the capture of Jerusalem, and after the infidels defiled the Arabian Peninsula and are threatening Arabs and Muslims, the holy places, and especially Iraq - Jihad has become an obligation of every individual Muslim [Fardh 'Ayn]. Anyone who does not comply, will find himself lost in [hell], side by side with Haman, Pharaoh and their soldiers. These are not just words of a sermon delivered from the pulpit of a mosque with enthusiasm, they are religious law. Ask the jurisprudents, if you don't know that." "

[isthisnickcool]

This is just false. Female circumcision is not a muslim tradition.

It's evil for them to still do this today. That was my point. There is a lot of info. on the net about this. The goal is the subjugation of their women. Here is just one little snippet.

"In July, 1997 the Egyptian government overturned a ban on the practice of FGM. This event was celebrated by some Muslim figures, particularly Sheikh Youssef al-Badri, an outspoken proponent of the circumcision of Muslim women. Later the ban was reinstated, an act celebrated now by feminists and under assault by a few Muslim activists, again, led by Sheikh al-Badri."

[A. Pole]

On one hand, if there were no organised religions, then bad things would not be done in the name of God. On the other hand, there exists those people that want to do bad things, and use religions as justification.

Bad people will always find some justification - religion, science, socialism, democracy, secularism, law and order, race, economy - whatever has the authority in a given time.

But the cold cruel fact is that the largest number of murders in history was committed by the militant secularists/atheists. Nobody came near!

[usconservative]

"We have specialists that deal with this problem. I suggest that you do such an operation that nothing grows out of you again," Mr Putin reportedly said.

Those "specialists" put bullets in the heads of the Chechen Rebels Muslim Terrorist Extremists that took 700+ hostages a few weeks ago.

Knock 'em out, put a bullet in their head, problem solved.

I really like Putin's directness in dealing with the problem, and the media.

[stuartcr]

Why should they do that, because you think so? Maybe they were raised that way, and it's familiar, maybe there are many aspects that they do like. I thought we were supposed to let people worship as they want, especially if the tenets they follow, do no one any harm.

[YoungKentuckyConservative]

Not all Muslims want to kill people. Just as there are many Christians, Jews, etc., that do not abide by all that they are told, so too are there many Muslims.

So what's the ratio, good to bad? That is the question. Until we know, I have my defenses up and ZERO sympathy. It's up to the good Muslims to clear THEIR name, not me.

[Terriergal]

If, however, you are insinuating that Islam as a religion does not promote violence as a means to salvation, you are dead wrong. Even the "liberal" muslims who do not personally advocate violence will not stand against it.

Bingo...you are so correct.... that is the difference. While it is true that Christians who go out and commit adultery or the like are definitely not following the tenets of their religion, and while it is true that Muslims who don't go out and kill 'unbelievers' are not adhering to the tenets of their religion, what do the two have in common?

Christianity asks us NOT to do evil, and yet some 'Christians' do not obey it (either because of poor judgement or deliberately). Islam asks their adherents to do EVIL, and yet some Muslims do not obey it (either because of ignorance of the teachings, or deliberately because they still have a conscience and love for their fellow man).

What do those two observations say about their respective religions? I find it hard to believe people still raise the comparison between Islam and Christianity. It's so patently ridiculous.

Now, there is a bit of disagreement among Christians as to whether one should be allowed to kill in times of war etc...because Christianity (The Kingdom of G_d) is NOT advanced by killing human beings, even if such killing is allowed in certain instances.

However, Islam teaches that Islam and Allah's cause IS advanced by killing the unbelievers.

[stuartcr]

Other than your last line, which I suspect is not really true, you are correct, bad people will do bad things, regardless of their religious affiliations. Why do you think it is that a majority of leaders that have waged wars, have at one time or another said something to the effect....'God is with us'...?

[Terriergal]

You can only bend the words so far. Your friends sound like they are in denial of what their religion teaches. They like the comfort of the ritual but they are unwilling to embrace it all... when the religion itself allows for no halfhearted following. And when it plainly teaches that if you leave the religion you should be executed.

[Terriergal]

Should have finished that thought:

When it plainly teaches that if you leave the religion you should be executed, that also makes them uwilling to take a closer look, lest they be compelled to leave.

[Terriergal]

That practice is not exclusive to Muslims.

[rockfish59]

'Vlad The Impaler'

[stuartcr]

I would think that by not killing anyone, or participating in the jihad, that would be enough.

[laconic]

I think the Russians are rapidly waking up to what we here have known for years (and that GW Bush knows and appreciates): with the exception of the British, mainland Europeans cannot be trusted. They have taken us for a ride, sixty years of almost free defense and give a lot of high-minded guff in return. The "liberals" in the EU are the French who don't even want the Turks to be allowed to apply for EU membership; the Germans, who do their best to keep out non-Europeans and then lecture the Russians on their Chechen problem and the US on dealing with terrorists; and the Scandinavians, who always have bright words for everyone else on accepting refugees until they begin to notice their numbers in their own countries.