Posted on 11/04/2002 7:52:21 AM PST by thinktwice
Descartes was a geometrician. He found only in mathematics and geometry the certainty that he required. Therefore, he used the methods of geometry to think about the world. Now, in geometry, one begins with a search for axioms, simple undeniable truths – for example, the axiom that a straight line is the shortest distance between two points. On the foundations of such “self-evident” propositions, whole geometrical systems can be built.
Following his geometrical model, Descartes proceeds to doubt everything – de onmibus dubitandum. He will suspend belief in the knowledge he learned from childhood, all those things “which I allowed myself in youth to be persuaded without having inquired into their truth.” Doubt will be his method, a deliberate strategy for proceeding toward certainty. (Descartes is a doubter not by nature, but by necessity. What he really wants is secure understanding so he can stop doubting.)
Descartes finds that he has no trouble doubting the existence of real objects/events – our senses too easily deceive us. And we can doubt the existence of a supernatural realm of reality – figments and fantasies are too often conjured by our native imaginations. But now his geometrical model pays off: in trying to doubt everything, he discovers something that he can’t doubt. What he can’t doubt is that he is doubting. Obviously, I exist if I doubt that I exist. My doubt that I exist proves that I exist, for I have to exist to be able to doubt. Therefore I can’t doubt that I exist. Hence, there is at least one fact in the universe that is beyond doubt. “I am, I exist is necessarily true each time that I pronounce it, or that I mentally conceive it.
Descartes thus becomes the author of the most famous phrase in Western philosophy: Cognito ergo sum, or, in his original French, Je pense, donc je suis. – I think, therefore I exist. With roots in St. Augustine, this is certainly one of the catchiest ideas yet created by the human mind.
Is this your point: somehow you believe this...
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
...is proof of the non-existence of God?
No!
What I've noted is ...
There is a contradiction in claiming that God exists in reality while claiming that God created everything -- including His own Self -- that exists in reality.
And what I've proved, thank's to that contradiction, is that the commonly identified causitive factor behind reality is beyond reality; that he, she, or it does not exist in reality; that he, she, or it transcends reality -- that God does not exist in reality.
unspun raises his head from Autumn's debris...
That would be a silly contradiction, alright. Rather, it is appropriate to say that God is the uncreated Prior to all else (other than God) that is reality. That'll be $0.10. Blessings to see in the light.
Thank you, and the same to you.
There is, nowever, nothing silly in contradictions; they serve to advance truth and knowledge.
Ref ... Aristotle's Law of Non-Contradiction.
He who examines the most general features of existence, must investigate also the principles of reasoning. For he who gets the best grasp of his respective subject will be most able to discuss its basic principles. So that he who gets the best grasp of existing things qua existing must be able to discuss the basic principles of all existence; and he is the philosopher. And the most certain principle of all is that about which it is impossible to be mistaken... It is clear, then, that such a principle is the most certain of all and we can state it thus: "It is impossible for the same thing at the same time to belong and not belong to the same thing at the same time and in the same respect."
-Aristotle, Metaphysics, 1005b12-20
Formulation for the Law of Non-contradiction
Here is thinktwice's speculation from the previous post:
And what I've proved, thank's to that contradiction, is that the commonly identified causitive factor behind reality is beyond reality; that he, she, or it does not exist in reality; that he, she, or it transcends reality -- that God does not exist in reality.
Notwithstanding unspun's argument, the cause/effect relationship thinktwice asserts goes completely out the window when we add an extra time dimension to the concept of “reality". This is because when there is more than one time dimension, our time is not a line but a plane.
Naturally, in our 4D timeline-like worldview we make limited observations, one frame at a time. But in a higher spatial dimension - and especially in higher temporal dimensions - the entire movie is one instance (or brane.)
If you’d like to read more on this subject (all pdf):
Differential Geometry is what Einstein used to mathematically (and successfully) postulate on n-dimensional space; he added time to the known XYZ world of physics, and he discovered the 4-dimensional realm associated with relativity.
the cause/effect relationship thinktwice asserts goes completely out the window when we add an extra time dimension to the concept of “reality". .
I've identified a contradiction; I've not asserted a cause/effect relationship.
Nonetheless, an argument that transforms the issue of contradiction into a four dimensional cause/effect relationship won't sell because truth in the 4 dimensional world is simply time related truth rising out of a frozen-in-time 3 dimensional world.
This is because when there is more than one time dimension, our time is not a line but a plane.
Time is commonly referred to as man's 4th dimension, but ... you've said that there is more than one time dimension? Are you thinking about adding a 5th dimension -- sideways time? Or adding a 6th dimension -- 3-D time?
You say that you've "not asserted a cause/effect relationship" --- but that is what I gathered from the statement you made, i.e. that God caused the effect and thus cannot also be in the effect:
You wrote ... If all time dimensions are removed there is no cause/effect relationship of any kind (or any such time sequenced construct) - no fields, no wave phenomenon thus no particles, only non-actualized spatial geometry.
Can you imagine existence without time being involved?
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