Boy Scouts to Atheist: Accept A God or Get Out

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 10/30/02 | Michael L. Betsch

[kattracks]

(CNSNews.com) - The assistant Scoutmaster of a Pacific Northwest Boy Scout troop is currently faced with the decision of professing his belief in a "supreme being" or facing banishment from the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). However, 19-year-old Darrel Lambert said he's been an atheist since the ninth grade and he's sticking to his convictions.

Lambert's track record with the Seattle-based Troop 1531 is impressive. Throughout his 10-year scouting career he earned 37 merit badges to achieve the rank of Eagle Scout; served as a quartermaster and three-time senior patrol leader; and has dedicated himself to more than 1,000 hours of community service.

But Lambert is also passionate in his rejection of the existence of any supreme being, even though the BSA's regional Chief Seattle Council informed him that expressing a reverence for Mother Earth would be an acceptable form of worship.

Although Lambert admitted to his scout troop's review board that, for years, he had intentionally neglected to demonstrate the principles of faith and reverence to God contained within the Scout Oath and Law, he was awarded the BSA's highest honor last year - Eagle Scout. Coincidentally, his mom is the Scoutmaster of that troop.

Mark Hunter, spokesman for the BSA's regional Chief Seattle Council, said he could not comment or speculate whether Trish Lambert influenced members of the Eagle Scout review board that approved her son's Eagle Scout application, which mandates all applicants must: "Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life."

Ironically, Lambert addressed parents Monday night in the basement of a chapel at a retirement home, the Seattle Times reported. He urged those in attendance to look beyond the issue of his atheism and support his proven dedication to the Boy Scouts.

"I think the only power higher than myself is the power of all of us combined," Lambert said.

Additionally, Lambert said he wants to see the 92-year-old BSA repeal its national membership requirements, which includes on its application a Declaration of Religious Principle. He proposed that individual troops be given the right to devise the standards by which they extend their membership to Scouts and adult leaders.

Hunter said Lambert would be permitted to continue his leadership role and interact with members of Troop 1531 while he takes some time to "search out his feelings on this."

"If they're truly what they are," Hunter said, "his membership will be terminated."

Atheism rejected in court

A similar battle erupted in 1991 when twins, Michael and William Randall, refused to recite the Boy Scout Oath's reference to God and faced expulsion from the Orange County, Calif., Boy Scouts Council, said BSA spokesman Gregg Shields.

"At the time, they were eight-years-old ... and they said they were agnostics," Shields noted. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines an agnostic as "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable."

The Randall twins' father, an attorney, argued a successful seven-year case in an Orange County district court only to have it overturned by the Calif. State Supreme Court in 1998.

Shields said the twins fulfilled all of the requirements to become Eagle Scouts, but since the Calif. Supreme Court ruled that the BSA could legally refuse to accept them as members, they were never awarded with the BSA's highest honor.

Teenage rebellion normal

"We recognize that in your early teenage years you go through a formative period where you question and you prod beliefs and you think about and you explore ideas," Shields said. "That's natural and to be expected."

But Shields said Lambert is now an adult who has chosen to lead a group that requires its young members and adult leaders to believe in a supreme being. He stressed that the organization places a high importance on the spiritual development of scouts to recognize a being greater than themselves.

"We expect an adult has the ability to make their own mind up about a belief," Shields said. "If one doesn't agree with the Boy Scout belief system, then perhaps boy scouting is not for that person."

E-mail a news tip to Michael L. Betsch.

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.

[WorkingClassFilth]

Look, you ought to realize in this day and age that just about any biography done by or for gay interests is going to be revisionist. In fact, at times, listening to mainstream PC ideologues it seems that Marxism was Christ's animus; the Christians are dangerous right wing religious zealots and everybody, after their death, is revealed to have been secretly gay. Frankly, I have zero tolerance for any such revelations unless they are of the highest vetting.

I'll reiterate.

"By ignoring the fixed and inseparable gulf of sexual identity from the role of Scoutmaster, you contribute to the direct dilution and perversion of the meaning of 'Boy Scouts.' Since Baden Powell is not here to illuminate the errors of your ill-conceived thought, I'll direct you to the body of traditional scouting literature."

Simple enough and it says all I care to about the issue that you brought up.

[Kevin Curry]

Atheism takes great faith.

Or lazy thinking.

Bertand Russell once applied his formidable skills of logic to the question and concluded that strict logic forbids atheism--agnosticism was the best he could hope for.

Most atheists are sloppy, shallow thinkers on the question whether God exists.

[WorkingClassFilth]

Polybius, you know, I don't doubt for a second that you're a fine guy and have your ducks in a row. The disconnect between your world and mine is along deeper and, perhaps, less distinct lines.

For example, you go to great lengths to establish your personal credentials because they have deep meaning to you (and they are admirable). I would remind you though, that they have the meanings you hold precisely because they are higher standards and they contrast so starkly with the dilution and ignorant neglect of the standards of those other Americans around you.

In my view, Scouting is suffering from a similar situation. You feel that a-n-y Scouting experience is better than no Scouting and, somehow, that kids (and that is what it really should be - boys and girls - no distinction) will be hurt or diminished by not having s-o-m-e sort of experience in scouting.

I still say: not true. There are many, many other organizations out there that will give kids tons of experiences and many of them are centered on outdoor themes. If a need exists for kids, a solution is somewhere at hand and it doesn't need to be Scouting. After all, Scouting is not Scouting anyway once the core ideas are removed. If it is not a male character development instrument, then it is nothing more that just an "experience" no matter how the Scoutmistress is attired.

In a nut shell, BP never intended for boys to have "experiences." The intent was to mold men. Women do not have the qualifications and the proof is in the fruit of single mother households. We can talk about exceptions forever, but that is the central fact. It looks as though Scouting has accomodated women who will accomodate boys so that they can have an accomodating experience. Makes no sense from the perspective of the intents of BP - real Scouting. It seems the BSA is just another casualty of the culture war. If you wish to see where this logic leads, look into the state of affairs in Girl Scouts of America.

To further illustrate this point, I offered the Catholic church as an example. What could possibly be wrong with allowing women into the priesthood? Furthermore, if the object of Christianity is to make better people, who is to say that God would not be pleased with a priesthood that embraces all people that profess a love of God and live ethical lives?

In this manner, all is lost.

We can ping-pong from now until hell freezes over if you like, but I believe you have swallowed, in part, the exact kind of relativism that has distorted our entire culture. As conservatives, we ought to be damned careful to note that while we may have won this elections in a big way, we are far, far, far from winning the cultural war. In order to do that, well, let's just say that I don't buy the idea that any Priest is better than no Priest.

Good luck to you and yours.

[anniegetyourgun]

Frankly, I think agnosticism is lazier. Don't know, can't know, don't even want to think about it, etc. Every agnostic I know hasn't even read scripture and therefore doesn't even know what they've rejected. I'm guessing that my personal experience is not rare, but par for the course.

[Kevin Curry]

I don't believe it is mere coincidence that so many social libertarians (pro-dope, pro-porn, pro-prostitution, etc) are also atheists. They are, first and foremost, hedonists for whom the principle of boundless self-pleasure is pre-eminent among all principles. However, boundless self-pleasure cannot co-exist with a belief in a Christian God who declares unchanging moral truths. The more firmly focused they are on self-pleasure, the more fiercely they must ignore or reject even the concept of a Christian God to whom they are personally accountable. They measure all claims by whether each particular claim cramps their personal hedonist style.

That is why most of them will tolerate Hinduism, or Buddhism etc with a yawn. Such religions are quaint curiosities or make no claims that place any real restrictions on their behavior--especially their sexual behavior. But they will become angry and red-faced when confronted with the claims of Christianity, for Christianity aeerts that man is accountable to God personally and directly for his very breath and life.

It is neither just nor constitutional to impose Christian belief on unbelievers. On the other hand, there are destructive consequences to others that inevitably flow from pursuing the principle of boundless self-pleasure. Atheists and social libertarians in the west exult especially in the sexual freedom they have enjoyed in the past 150 years by ignoring or rebelling against the restraint inherent in Christian-Judeo ethic. But with this freedom has also come the destruction of the traditional family and marriage, the scourge of STDs including AIDS, and the creation of abortion factories and its industry of death responsible for the slaughter of millions of innocent children each year.

The external costs of this atheist-inspired sexual hedonism are horrific and huge beyond belief. The atheist social libertarian retort that such things "harm no one but the indulgent him or herself" is perhaps the greatest lie of this generation or any generation. These things are more than an affront against God--they are the slow but sure murder of society--the destruction of this great nation and the rending of the fabric of its Constitution.

The slow but sure murder of society--the destruction of this great nation and the rending of the fabric of its Constitution--are what is at issue in the article that leads this particular thread. The Boy Scouts were founded in a place and at a time when a belief in the Christian God--one Who requires self-discipline and modesty in all things including and especially sexual matters--was widely accepted by society. The Boy Scouts caught on very quickly in the United States because most people in the United States at least tacitly accepted or embraced these virtues.

The Boy Scouts have maintained that moral God-oriented focus over the years even as non-belief and sexual hedonism invaded and conquered most other areas of culture and society. Now the enemies of God and unbelief are turning their full force against the Scouts. Using civil rights-inspired weaponry and the courts as its battlefield, atheism is seeking to break down the ramparts and turrets that have heretofore preserved the Boy Scouts from the rot of cultural anomie and sexual hedonism.

The question here is not whether one man has been denied the "right" not to believe in God. No one has denied him that right. The question here is whether a private organization--a refuge from the atheist, hedonist, social ibertarian cultural rot endemic in America today--will be denied the right to defend and separate itself by affirming a belief in God.

The Boy Scouts of America is a small oranization. But the battle for its soul is of huge significance to this nation.

[Cultural Jihad]

Excellent essay.

[Illbay]

Lambert's track record with the Seattle-based Troop 1531 is impressive.

And Mussolini made the trains run on time.

I'm sick and tired of moral relativism. I am not about to join an atheist organization, then demand that they relax their "standards" so that I can fit in.

The BSA is a faith-based organization and always has been. "A Scout is Reverent" is the Twelfth Point of the Scout Law. And Scouts of all faiths are welcome; there is no specific brief for Christianity or any other faith or sect.

But "atheism" is a negation of faith. It doesn't belong. There are other ways this young man can fulfill his God-given (whether he acknowledges it or not) desire to serve. Stop forcing others to accept your "diversity" where it isn't appropriate.

[Illbay]

That I want to know is how this kid's Troop ended up with a female Scoutmaster?

This has been allowed for some time now, and I agree it is unfortunate. Interestingly, men are NOT allowed to serve in leadership capacities in the Girl Scouts, though they may be adjunct volunteers. The thought here, of course, is that since men are predators it wouldn't be appropriate.

Fortunately, my Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, follows its own set of rules in this regard--and the BSA allows them to do so. Since the LDS Church is the largest single sponsor of scouting in the world, it's easy to see why this is.

MEN lead the boys in our Scout troops, and that'll not change.

[Kevin Curry]

Thanks for the kind words. There are clinkers in it, though, expecially this one: "Now the enemies of God and unbelief . . ."

It should read "Now the enemies of God and the champions of unbelief . . ."

[Kevin Curry]

And Scouts of all faiths are welcome; there is no specific brief for Christianity or any other faith or sect.

Yes, but the Judeo-Christian religion and ethic is and always has been the dominant religion and ethic within the BSA. I would go further and say that morally conservative Judeo-Christians tend to be the most vigorous and successful scouters. That is to say, Unitarians and other liberal Christian congregations are increasingly abandoning scouting or letting scouting die from neglect because the BSA's emphasis on standards does not rest easily with the liberal notion of essentially standardless "tolerance" and insipid celebrations of "diversity."

But any affirmation of belief in God is a rejection of atheism and its destructive self-worshipping "man is measure of all things" ethic. Atheism's non-god is the most jealous god of all, and he rages incessantly against all who will not fall down and worship him.

[anka]

agnosticism is hardly a lazy man's religion.
i'll opine that it takes more strength and courage to do what is 'right' and 'good' in the face of our uncertainty than to KNOW you will be rewarded for your 'goodness'.

you, i think, are taking the lazy route.
you already have the answers and don't need to question your faith.
you already know you will be 'saved'

me, being agnostic and uncertain, still attempt to be a moral and good person. even if there is no reward. even if there isn't a 'heaven'. even if my morality and goodness might mean 'jack sh*t' in the end.

you have everything spelled out for you in this nice little book.

so how is doing 'right' and being 'moral' in the face of this uncertainty equate to being lazy or taking the easy way out?

[Roscoe]

But with this freedom has also come the destruction of the traditional family and marriage

To libertarians, traditional families are collective entities without any rights worthy of their recognition or respect. The dehumanized reductionism of libertarianism knows only "individuals" and "contract."

[anniegetyourgun]

Because, as I said earlier, most don't even know what they are rejecting. And make no mistake about it, agnosticism is just as much 'rejection' as atheism. You're either for Him or against Him....not my words, but His.

[anka]

did i say anything about rejection in my post?

atheism doesn't allow for the possibility of 'god' OR 'sumpreme being' OR 'lord of the universe'
that is definately a rejection...

agnosticism, on the other hand, acknowledges that we humans can neither prove/disprove the existence of any of the above mentioned nouns.

personally, i believe that cheapening the power that is the universe and existence, by giving it a name and likening it to some anthropomorphic figure in the sky, is, while creative, an _easy_ AND _simple_ explanation. i can understand that most humans are incapable of abstract thought and need to have a simple story presented to them and a little hand holding by their house of worship. i think that your faith works for you, and if it makes you a better person, then great.

just don't insult my belief and liken it to a rejection because it doesn't fit in with your understanding of an old man in the sky and a son on a cross...

peace.

anka

[anniegetyourgun]

Your argument isn't with me but the One who has already spoken on the issue of trusting Him vs some ambiguous 'force' in the universe. He has revealed Himself and you are without excuse.

peace = Jehovah Shalom

[anka]

i have no arguments with what you choose to call the 'One'.
and i don't believe in any ambiguous force. i'm _certain_ that that 'force' exists. i feel it when the wind touches my face. i feel it when i play with my nieces and nephews and see their smiles and hear their laughter.

that 'ambiguous force' is all around us and inside us.
we are all a part of it. some of us call it 'god' some of us think it looks like a man with a beard and a hat. i think we're all partly right. even you.

you aren't like most christians i've known.
i commend your civility.

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
Voltaire

"Not all those who wander are lost."
J.R.R Tolkien

[anniegetyourgun]

I just thank God that I don't have to make it up as I go along, or exist in a cafeteria-style faith where everyone or no one has the truth. The former requires a god fashioned by man in his image. Such a god is way too small. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

"To argue for truth today is to stir an immediate debate, as if a heresy of devilish proportions has been invoked. The death of God spelled the death of theology, but the morticians of the Absolute were not content to just bleed God-talk. Inevitably God’s undertakers were marching to their own funeral with all of knowledge being pronounced dead." - Dr. Ravi Zacharias

[RJayneJ]

Thanks for the nomination! };^D)

[anka]

i don't see how you could come to the conclusion that I think, that either everyone has the truth, or noone has it.
that's hardly the case.

i think we all have some of the truth.
but we're human. we can't see ALL things.
we can't see the WHOLE TRUTH. if we could, wouldn't we be the equal to 'god'?

i think the god that you, as a christian, believe in is 'way too small' (if i may use your own words). the god(s) of all organized religions for that matter.

what have you all done but encapsulate the 'all powerful' and the 'omnipotent' into a book and a set of rules and dogmas?

you've reduced the mysterious into a set of rituals and books and scriptures in the language of your choice. and why? so that you can understand it? is it too frightening to live with that mystery, to question it?

or maybe you've already asked those questions and have come to your conclusion. if that's the case then i won't begrudge you your faith.

i think you just need to understand that their are other points of view and people find different parts of the TRUTH as they grow. maybe you've reached your full potential and have seen enough of the TRUTH that you don't wish to search anymore. i would just ask that you don't begrudge those of us who are still searching.

[WorkingClassFilth]

Expanding on your thoughts...

A Scout is:

Trustworthy = Acts in accordance to the standards set forth.
Loyal = Accepts and defends the tenets of his creed.
Helpful = Seeks to do good.
Friendly = Open, without guile.
Courteous = Shows respect when respect is called for.
Kind = Practices benevolence.
Obedient = Follows the precepts of his order.
Cheerful = Maintains a positive outlook.
Thrifty = Doesn't waste time or energy on foolishness.
Brave = Stans up and fights for the right.
Clean = Shuns impulse and relativism.
Reverent = Honors the Absolute above all.