Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Damned if you do: Historians dare to criticize Islamic dhimmitude at Georgetown and pay a price
NRO ^ | 10/29/2002 | Rod Dreher

Posted on 10/29/2002 11:30:34 AM PST by Utah Girl

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-37 last
To: Illbay
...and the contribution of Muslim Arabs in the sciences and mathematics is inestimable

Inestimable. I keep hearing this line. All I ever heard that the Muslims contributed is the concept of zero and algebra. For me the discovery of the concept of zero is a bit overblown; it's like hearing mathematicians make a big to-do about null, nil, and the like. I'm sure even a caveman knew when he had nothing that he really had nothing. I recollect the Greeks discovered and developed geometry and formulae. By the way the Pythagorean theorem is an algebraic expression. So the Arabs generalized the concept. Big deal.

The Arabs contributed to medicine and astronomy? I think much of their medicine had already been discovered by the Greeks. I’m much more impressed with Kepler and Galileo’s venture into astronomy where the science is verifiable and results predicatable. Maybe the Arabs helped to maintain classical knowledge. I think the Eastern Holy Roman Empire would have done as good or better had they not been overrun and ravaged by the Muslims.

My big doubt about the value of Islamic contribution comes from the observation that Muslims pillaged and ran down the conquered until the earth lay barren. Every one of their nations now are devoid of accomplishment. How could an ideology as good as Islam wreak such havoc? Simple, it never was any good in the first place.

21 posted on 10/29/2002 2:25:19 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
Inestimable. I keep hearing this line.

Sneer all you want, but it's true. When Europe was wallowing in the Dark Ages, the Muslim world was in the full flower of high civilization.

Now, things are completely the opposite: Their Dark Ages are here, and have been around for a few hundreds of years.

But because the era WE live in (a razor-thin slice of time compared with the span of human civilization) contains their dark ages, doesn't mean that Islam has never made its contributions. It has.

It doesn't mean that the Christian world doesn't have its own ignorant and bloody past: It does.

So what? Sounds like human beings, to me.

22 posted on 10/29/2002 2:53:29 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Utah Girl
bump for later read
23 posted on 10/29/2002 3:16:37 PM PST by agrace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Utah Girl
It seems to me taht the students groups involved already know what Dhimmi are. Students have been dhimmi to the far-left for years.
24 posted on 10/29/2002 4:19:18 PM PST by rmlew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Illbay; LoneRangerMassachusetts
All I ever heard that the Muslims contributed is the concept of zero and algebra.

We play basketball against some Hindus at the YMCA some times. After 9/11 we got to talking (they're not big fans of Muslims). They claim that Hindu Indians invented the zero and that the Muslims claim it as their own. They claim everyone knows this. I've never gone to the effort of varifying either way.
25 posted on 10/29/2002 7:06:37 PM PST by Michael2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Michael2001
I have to wonder if the discussion came up as you were discussing the score of one of your games.

Sounds like SOMEONE might have gotten "skunked"!

26 posted on 10/29/2002 7:35:45 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Utah Girl
There's speech made by Chevy Chase in "Christmas Vacation" that describes these academics. It's too rude to post on FR, but I recommend it.
27 posted on 10/29/2002 7:46:31 PM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Utah Girl
At War With EVIL (by FReeper GaryMontana)

What did we (in America) learn from September 11, 2001 and the deaths of 3,000 people. I am tempted to admit: Absolutely nothing.

Among the many unlearned lessons of Day-Which-Will-Live-In-Infamy-II-- the necessity to control our borders, the need for a patriotic renewal and the importance of combating multiculturalism -- the most significant is the nature of Islam. You will note that I do not say militant Islam, or radical Islam, or Islamic extremism or other such weasel words – but Islam, period.

Every one of the hijackers who flew airliners into the World Trade Center and Pentagon were professing and practicing Moslems, as is Osama bin Laden. The Al Qaeda terrorist network, is based in Moslem countries and supported financially by the so called pious Moslem leadership of Saudi Arabia.

The overwhelming majority of Moslem religious authorities who have spoken out on the subject, including those at the main mosque in Mecca and Egypt’s prestigious Al Azar University, either endorse or rationalize acts of terrorism. On a day when Americans were incinerated or buried under tons of rubble, Muslims from Nigeria to Indonesia, celebrated in the streets.

Sept. 11 was one chapter in a 1400-year jihad. Every day, the World Trade Center massacre is reenacted on a smaller scale somewhere in the world. Jewish women and children are burned alive in a bus in Israel. A missionary is beheaded in the Philippines, gunmen shoot up a church in Pakistan (deliberately firing into the prostrate bodies of women trying to shield their children). Ancient monasteries and convents are destroyed in Kosovo. Women are sentenced to death for adultery in Nigeria, Hindus are murdered in the Kashmir. In Denmark, the Muslim community there has put a $30,000 bounty on the heads of Jews and those who support Israel. Nuns are beheaded in Baghdad, Christians in Sudan are forced into slavery, and in Britain, Islam openly states it is going to take over not only the UK, but the whole world -- and the beat goes on.

Genocide in the Sudan, ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, religious persecution in Saudi Arabia, calls for another holocaust in mosques from Mecca to Gaza, the imposition of Islamic law in Nigeria, forced conversions in Indonesia, synagogues burned in France, Jews attacked across Europe – these are everyday events, as Third World and much of the First slowly turns Islamic green.

Sadly our leaders, from President Bush on down, insist on peddling the absurdity that Islam is a religion of peace – a creed of kindness and benevolence tragically and inexplicably corrupted by fanatics.

Why is the leadership of the West reluctant to confront manifest reality? The reason lies partly with our absurd foreign policy. We have declared certain Moslem nations to be our loyal allies – including Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan. We would not want to offend these dear friends by saying something unflattering about their bloody, butcherly, dark ages faith.

Americans are naturally benevolent. Most of us are taught from childhood that is religion is good (and it does not matter which religion). As long as little Johnny believes in God and goodness, it’s inconsequential whether he lights candles, wears a skull cap to services or prays in the direction of Mecca.

This works with every religion except Islam.

Consider the following: Of the three major western religions: one was started by a lawgiver who helped to free slaves; one by a man of peace; the last one by a man who loved war and having sex with children. Mohammed not only led men into battle, he enjoyed marrying girls as young as six years old (it is in the Koran). The essence of his message is sick and disgusting. A holy war where you slaughter your enemies, while at the same time encouraging followers to have sex with the children they capture (as he did) for the glory of Allah. He even advised his followers to negotiate false peace treaties in order to lull their enemies.

For almost 1,400 years, that has been the reality of Islam. Within a century after the death of Mohammed, Islam spread throughout the Middle East and across North Africa. It overran the Iberian peninsula and was finally stopped in southern France. It spread eastward as far as the southern Philippines. It was not propagated by fresh-faced young men knocking on doors and announcing: “Hello. I’m from your local mosque. Have you considered the Koran?” It was and is spread by force – conversion by the sword or death. This is still in practice today.

Some will respond that all religions go through periods of violence, usually in their infancy. Christianity had its crusades and Inquisition, its forced conversions and expulsions. The evil committed in the name of Christ happened centuries ago. The evil committed in the name of the Prophet is going on now, as you read these words. Of 22 conflicts in the Third World, 20 involve Moslems versus someone else. Coincidence? In his brilliant book, “Clash of Cultures and the Remaking of World Order,” Samuel Huntington speaks of Islam’s “bloody borders.”

There is no Methodist Jihad, no Jewish Hasidic holy warriors, no Buddhist monk wanting to have 72 virgins waiting for him after a suicide bombing, no Hindu Holy men plotting to blow up people, no Southern Baptist suicide bombers, no Mormon elders preaching the annihilation of members of other faiths.

Islam is a warrior religion – the perfect vessel for fanatics, the violence-prone, the envious and haters of all stripes. This is one reason why Islam is making so many converts among the peaceable denizens of our prison system.

Still, much of the West is addicted to a fairy-tale version of Islam. Christian and Jewish clergy fall all over themselves to have interfaith services with imams. Representatives of Moslem groups are invited to the White House. The president signs a Ramadan declaration. In California, public schools ask children to role-play at being Moslems. Our universities take carefully selected verses from the Koran and present them as the essence of the faith. All that’s needed is a Moslem character on “Sesame Street.” Look – it’s the Jihad Monster!

This perspective engenders a fatally false sense of security. Imagine, in 1940, Winston Churchill taking to the airwaves to announce “Nazism is an ideology of peace which, regrettably, has been perverted by a few fanatics like Hitler and Goebbels. But most storm troopers and SS men are fine follows – your friends and neighbors.”

For the first thousand years of its history – from the death of Mohammad to the 17th. century decline of the Ottoman empire, Islam was an expansionist force. For the next 300 years, as the West rose to preeminence, Islam receded. For the past four decades – fueled by Arab oil wealth, a surplus population in the Middle East, the waning of the West and the rise of more virulent strains of the faith (Shiism, Wahhabism, Sunni fundamentalism) – Islam is expanding once more.

Due to Moslem immigration and aggressive proselytizing, Islam is being exported to the West. Moslem populations are burgeoning throughout Western Europe. (In southern France, there are more mosques than churches.) In Judeo-Christian America, Islam is the fastest growing religion. It is also spreading down the coast of West Africa, through the Balkans (after Serbia, Macedonia is the next target) and up from Mindanao in the Philippines.

Wherever it comes, Islam brings its delightful customs – child marriages, female circumcisions, rabid hatred toward Christians, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists and every other non-muslim, terrorism and support for terrorism and a virulent intolerance of other faiths.

Am I suggesting we declare war on over 1 billion million Moslems? The question is moot – Islam has declared war on the rest of the human race. When one side knows it’s at war and the other thinks peace and brotherhood prevail, guess who wins?

Ultimately, it is not about Jews in Israel, or Orthodox Serbs in Kosovo, or Hindus in Kashmir, Buddhists in Thailand, or Maronite Catholics in Lebanon, Taoists in China, or Christians in Sudan and Nigeria, but all of us. As Ben Franklin would have it – Either we will hang together, or surely we shall all hang separately.

28 posted on 10/29/2002 7:59:50 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Illbay
Haha. Well there usually is a lot of trash talking.

They usually start with the whole white men can't jump stuff

To which we usually respond with "How many Indians are there in the NBA again?

A billion of y'all you'd think at least one of you would be good at basketball, but apparently not".
29 posted on 10/29/2002 8:13:07 PM PST by Michael2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: js1138
And I want to look him straight in the eye and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, d#ckless, hopeless, heartless, fat-a$$ed, bug-eyed, stiff- legged, spineless, worm-headed sack of monkey $hit he is! Hallelujah! Holy $hit! Where's the Tylenol™?

Hallelujah is right JS!
 LINK

30 posted on 10/29/2002 8:24:11 PM PST by GirlShortstop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Utah Girl; All
Thank you for posting this, Utah Girl.

Bat Ye'Or is the foremost scholar of dhimmitude. I have her book, and while I agree with Cato that it is hard reading, that does not make it any less important or valuable.

There are other writers who discuss the plight of the dhimmis under Islam, a painful and ongoing story.

I will start a new thread introducing one such book which has recently become available on amazon.com, and will take the liberty of pinging you to the thread when it appears.
31 posted on 10/29/2002 8:27:32 PM PST by tictoc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tictoc
Thank you for the future ping. I've wanted to read one of Bat Your's books, I don't mind the hard reading. :)
32 posted on 10/29/2002 8:30:59 PM PST by Utah Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Michael2001
LOL! Hey, we got Yao Ming here in Houston now. Since the Chinese and Indians are historically unfriendly, you could hit 'em with that!

A life-size poster of the guy ought to really psych 'em out!

33 posted on 10/29/2002 8:34:12 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Utah Girl
Bat Yeor told me last week that several Jewish and Christian students approached her and her husband after the event and thanked them for their testimony. "I asked them, 'Why didn't you stand up for us when we were being attacked?'" she said. "They didn't have an answer."

Because they were chicken?

According to Chuck Colson, the black Muslims in prisons (NOT Nation of Islam, either) cause HUGE amounts of trouble for Christian speakers.
34 posted on 10/29/2002 8:41:07 PM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Utah Girl
Bat Yeor told me last week that several Jewish and Christian students approached her and her husband after the event and thanked them for their testimony. "I asked them, 'Why didn't you stand up for us when we were being attacked?'" she said. "They didn't have an answer."

Because they were chicken?

According to Chuck Colson, the black Muslims in prisons (NOT Nation of Islam, either) cause HUGE amounts of trouble for Christian speakers.
35 posted on 10/29/2002 8:41:45 PM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aruanan
Yep, tolerance in America seems to only run way, and it is us conservatives and religious types that must be respectful, tolerant of diverseness. The other side is allowed to hate and and cause trouble with whomever and whatever they don't believe in.
36 posted on 10/29/2002 8:43:49 PM PST by Utah Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Utah Girl
Bump
37 posted on 10/30/2002 7:37:22 AM PST by weikel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-37 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson