Socialism here we come - Oregon Voters Will Decide On Universal Health Care

WSJ.com ^

[Sub-Driver]

EUGENE, Ore. -- Universal health care, a largely quiescent notion since Hillary Clinton's failed efforts on its behalf nearly a decade ago, has re-emerged in Oregon as the hottest measure on next week's ballot.

To understand why, one need only ask Jane Moodie. The homemaker can't afford $160 a month to piggyback on her husband's health-insurance policy, and she thinks insurers' profits are "obscene." So three nights a week, she works at a phone bank here, calling on voters to back a ballot initiative that would make Oregon the first state to scrap the current system that mixes private insurance and government spending for health care.

[OldPossum]

This is nit-picking but universal health care is not, strictly defined, socialism. Socialism is a economic system under which the main factors of production are owned and operated by the government.

The universal health care that Oregon is going to vote on is a state welfare program and these kinds of programs can occur under capitalism or socialism. They do not have to be established under capitalism but they are part and parcel of a socialist economic system.

Under our capitalist economy we have welfare programs such as Medicare, food stamps, etc.

[Koblenz]

Well, all the rich people are going to leave. And poor people don't give other people jobs.

[tm22721]

she works at a phone bank here, calling on voters to back a ballot initiative

If she got a real job she could easily afford the insurance and have enough left over to celebrate her freedom from Uncle Sugar.

BUMP

[citizenK]

Not to nit-pick here, but the good ol' USA is not a capitalist system. What we have here is corporatism, a political economy whereby the government acts as power broker between labor and capital interests. Corporatism is a form of socialism. Also, to make matters worse, American corporatism is expanding from the traditional labor and capital dichotomy to include other special interest groups (like anti-gun, anti-smoking, and environmentalist types) bent on dictating how business is conducted and how people lead their (economic) lives in the country.

Wake up! Socialism already dominates the US political landscape.

[Dr Warmoose]

"Am I missing something here?"

As a Texan, I am for it. For the price of a one-way bus ticket we can rid our state of the hypochondriacs who get their mail delivered to the emergency room at the county hospital. Ship all of our illegal immigrants and welfare deadbeats up there. When the state of Maine declared itself to be a magnet for parasites, many Somalians in the Atlanta area packed up and headed off to the land of sloth and entitlement based on encouragement from Somali radio.

Heck, I would be willing to work three nights a week to hand out color brochures advertising the marxist utopia that Oregon residents are demanding there oppressors burden them with. Maybe if Oregon builds a real nice replica of the SF's Castro district or any other sodomite friendly area, we can unload the burden of taking care of Hepatitis and AIDS patients.

Let Oregon turn into the liberal wasteland while the producers flee from the "name it and claim it" moochers, leaches and parasites.

I for one will be glad to swap with Oregon. OR takes our flotsam and jetsam, and we can take their high income producers. (No income taxes in TX, y'all)

Besides, with the death of the logging and fishing industry due to environmentalist whackos - what is Oregon good for except a penal colony for our nation's diseased parasitic vermin?

[republicman]

All in all the (supposed) "have nots" always seem to have a stronger drive to take than the "haves" have to keep what's theirs.

And until that turns around more of this can be expected.

[hobbes1]

Socialism is a economic system under which the main factors of production are owned and operated by the government.

Incorrect. that would be Fascism.

[Broker]

Euthanasia

Thanks for the spelling. That will fix em.

[Broker]

Euthanasia

Thanks for the spelling. That will fix em.

[alaskanfan]

Dead men generate no health-care expenses...

And they vote a straight Democrat ticket.

[citizenK]

Well, myself not being an Oregonian, nor having the slightest inclination of ever moving there (though I have travelled there, and I think it is quite a beautiful place), I don't really care if they want to enter the forays of socialism myself.

However, as someone else on this thread noted, the threat of socialized medicine being incrementally forced upon the rest of the US exists, and propositions like this one add fuel to that fire. When this Oregon plan fails, they will have their hand out to the Federal government. If this initiative passes in OR, we will all pay for it in the end.

If the people of OR can pay for this system themselves, and don't ask the rest of the country to chip in when they are overrun by freeloaders, then that would be ok by me. I think you are correct though, in your assertion that the freeloaders will flock to the state, and again, as someone else suggested on this thread, the so-called rich people will flee like rats from a sinking ship (actually, anyone with some common sense and the goal of improving the economic prospects of their family will/should leave OR). The federal government will be more than willing to bail them out, especially if the pols think it will expand their power base in DC.

[yankeedame]

This Jane Moodie person can't come up with $160 per month to pay for her health care, but she can work three nights per week to lobby for a government program that would make someone else obligated to pay for her healthcare? And she calls the insurance companies obscene?

If Moodie works four hours at even 5 dollars per hour for three nights, she makes 60$ per week, or $240 per month. Sounds to me like she can pay that $160, she just would just rather have someone else pay her bills.

My thoughts exactly! What's $160 divided by 30? Something like $5.33 a day? And there's no way this family can shave $5.33 a day off of household expenses?

How about Mr. Moodie-- or Ms. Moodie or both-- brown bagging their lunch? Skip going out to dinner quite so often? Cut out their gourmet coffee? The week-end "get aways"? Their organic foods and bottled water? The trips to the casino?

I mean, cheeze louise! The fact of the matter is that this chick doesn't have the money to spend on supplimental insurance only b/c she doesn't want to spend the money on something that neither brings her instant gratification or strokes her ego.

[labowski]

.......and watch all the doctors move out of state.

Why don't they just become a province of Canada? Free healthcare is sooo European.

Calling all Somalis, deadbeats, welfare queens, and socialists.

[mewzilla]

And watch the stampede out of the state if this is passed.

[yankeedame]

Well, all the rich people are going to leave. And poor people don't give other people jobs.

The "rich people" being, of course, anyone making more than minimum wage and/or working more than say, oh, 35 hours a week.

(Shaking my head) I still can't get over this. What on earth makes the powers-the-be in Oregon think they can pull off this "Universal Health Care" gimmic when the landscape is littered with the wreckage of (bigger) governments who thought they could do likewise?

[OldPossum]

No, I am not wrong. Here is the dictionary definition of "fascism": "a government system led by a dictator having complete power...regimenting all industry, commerce, etc."

[Teacher317]

$160 [per month]... she thinks insurers' profits are "obscene." So three nights a week, she works at a phone bank here,

Working 3 nights a week, she could easily make several hunder dollars per month. In reality, she's more concerned with stealing your money to pay for her health care than with anything as innocent or noble as caring for her family.

[OldPossum]

You have to remember the definitions here. All revolves around the ownership of the means of production. There was unfettered capitalism in 19th century Great Britain and the United States. Today, there is regulated capitalism.

The degree of regulation is irritating (I agree with you here) but you have to keep in mind the definitions used in economics. Actually, you're right in that regard, the United States does not have a "pure" capitalistic system, we have a blend of capitalism and socialism (the public school systems are run by government agencies, for example).

"Corporatism" is not an economics system, to my knowledge. If it is, cite me chapter and verse of any economics text.

[rohry]

"Am I missing something here?
This Jane Moodie person can't come up with $160 per month to pay for her health care..."

She also hasn't figured out that her taxes will be going up more than $160/month if this plan passes AND her quality of health care will inevitably deteriorate.

[BuddhaBoy]

Even so, a government bailout will put the nails on the coffin for this stupid proposal.

This needs to fail spectacularly, or every state is going to try this. If Hillary ever gets in the WH, this thing is going to be tried in every state at once, and the numbers will be covered up until you have every citizen depending on this program.

I'll trade a government bailout with having this thing nation wide.