Police spotted suspects' car 10 times during sniper spree (PC killed more innocents!)

Washington Post via Mecury News Link ^ | 26 Oct 2002 | Craig Whitlock and Josh White

[Grampa Dave]

``We were looking for a white van with white people, and we ended up with a blue car with black people,'' said Washington, D.C., Police Chief Charles Ramsey, whose department ran the Caprice's license Oct. 3, just hours before a fatal shooting in Washington that has been tied to the sniper suspects, John Allen Muhammad, 41, and John Lee Malvo, 17.

[4Freedom]

I'd say you're probably right that no-one bothered to watch all those security camera tapes to spot cars that showed up on more than one set.

If they didn't do the little bit of work it would have required to cross-check the license plate numbers collected at the roadblocks, what would make anyone think they'd watch hours and hours of videotape?

After all, they only had 2,000 LEOs on the case.

Here's an interesting statistic. Let's say 10,000 donuts per hour, 24 hours per day for 22 days. Man, that's a lot of donuts.

[Grampa Dave]

You should send this to Saturday Night Live as a script for a comedy scene.

I can just see it being done using your words as the entire joke with actors acting like cops and of course the two Nation of Islam, serial killers. Wait only one is a documented member/body guard.

[lds23]

History being re-written in front of our eyes:

First off, it's gone from "sniper" to the more detached "killings". Then, it's all "poor Mohammed". Not ONCE is the word "Islam", "convert" or "terrorist" used.




What's Behind the D.C.-Area Killings?

Updated 5:47 PM ET October 26, 2002

- Although police believe they have captured the two men responsible for the D.C.-area sniper attacks, they have given no indication as to what might have motivated John Allen Muhammad, 41, and John Lee Malvo, 17, to commit the crimes they have been linked to.



From what is known of Muhammad, he had had an unsteady career since leaving the military in 1996, and a failed second marriage in which his ex-wife accused him of domestic abuse and kidnapping their children.

Gregg McCrary, a former criminal profiler for the FBI, believes that the kind of pressures Muhammad might have been under, in addition to his alleged domestic abuse, fit the profile of a killer who erupts in a sudden explosion.

"If they have a propensity to violence, and no guilt and no remorse about committing acts of violence, then violence becomes a very logical choice for them to make to vent their frustrations, to show their anger and to take revenge on a society that they feel has wronged them," he said.

Forensic psychologist N.G. Burrell agrees that the D.C.-area sniper probably erupted in an explosion of rage, and believes he was not ready for what came next. "The killer in this case was really [in] over his head," Burrell said.

Although there are reports that the killer had demanded money and that Muhammad had earlier expressed sympathy for the Sept. 11 terrorists, Burrell does not think these are what motivated the attacks.

"What was really too much for him, what was beyond his control and beyond his abilities, was to have a meaningful dialogue with the press and the authorities," Burrell said. "I don't think he knew how to do that because I'm not sure he knew what his agenda is."


Why the D.C. Area?

Another question is why the alleged attackers, who had been living in Washington state, chose the D.C. area. Burrell suggests that Muhammad might have chosen the area because his ex-wife had moved there with his children.

"It is entirely possible that by coming down to the D.C. area he was demonstrating his contempt — his contempt for perhaps the situation and circumstances he found himself in, a sense of powerlessness, and an attempt perhaps in some way to even say obliquely to this woman, 'Look. I am powerful. I'm not one down. I can tie up this entire locale. I can frighten the heck out of everybody — and you're included here.'"


Pairs Who Kill

Although most serial killers work alone, experts say that in 20 percent of cases the killers work in pairs.

Burrell, who has examined killers in a number of high-profile cases, says that the pairing of an older man with a younger man — as with the suspects in the D.C. attacks — can set up "issues of dominance and submission."

He said Muhammad and Malvo reminded him of Sante and Kenneth Kimes, a mother and son convicted of murdering a wealthy widow in New York four years ago.

"You have a younger man wanting to please the older man, perhaps not having the ability to question the wrongfulnes entirely of what they are doing," he said.

"For the older man in a case like this, you have someone at your beck and call, you have someone you can speak to, someone who will listen to your concerns, perhaps listen to you rail against the system, someone you can rely on to help you carry out your mission."


Was Moose Being Columbo?

McCrary said it is part of the typical serial killer profile to initiate communication with the police by leaving messages or making calls — both of which happened in the D.C.-area sniper case.

He said investigators are "thrilled" when killers open a line of communication. "Their reason — many times — is to taunt law enforcement or to manipulate us in some way. But it's who is manipulating who that becomes the issue as times goes on."

And when Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose's television briefings at times seemed to hint at police incompetence — with accounts of unclear audio and missed calls — McCrary believes he might actually have been playing a part. He says it is a common tactic for investigators to act like the bumbling TV detective Columbo — in order to give criminals a false sense of superiority.

"Look a little bit bumbling, not quite as bright, so that they feel confident — and they just continue to come after us," he said.

In the sniper case, the attackers' "narcissism" and "sense of omnipotence" tripped them up, McCrary believes.

"They think they can get away with these crimes indefinitely — that the police are stupid, that those of us in law enforcement are not as smart as they are, that we can't catch them, and eventually that becomes their own downfall."

Limits of Profiling

Before Thursday's arrests, many criminal profilers had speculated that the attacker was a white loner, aged between 25 and 35, who had lived a long time in the D.C. area. McCrary and Burrell acknowledged that the arrests suggest that profiling — the inexact science of trying to make sense of the present based on past cases — has limitations.

"Some people say, 'Well, what is the profile of a serial killer?' My answer is, 'There is none,'" said McCrary.

"You have to look at these things on a case-by-case basis. There's no cookie-cutter approach that works.... This is one more case that we'll examine and we'll certainly learn from."

[ladyinred]

The Islamic terrorists comment is in no way an assumption. The guy is one, admittedly. He belongs to the Nation of Islam, converted to Muslim some 17 years ago, and if what he was doing the last 3 weeks wasn't terrorizing I don't know what is.The question is, why are you defending them?

[Concentrate]

What this comes down to (IMHO) is a POS who abandoned the country that he swore to protect. A Islamic POS that killed (or tried to) women , children , elderly, Americans of all ethnic backgrounds that goes against almost everything in the quranic verses thus making his alledged "struggle" based on religion moot , null and void.

Not so fast. From the Koran:

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

On second thought, perhaps you're right saying "almost everything".

[4Freedom]

They say that truth is funnier than fiction.

In spite of how tragic this was, I don't doubt, that as the truth comes out about how badly this whole episode was handled, that we'll see some skits on 'Saturday Night Live' or 'Mad TV' about it.

[templar]

I think we may have serious disagreements on what constitute facts form which a deduction can be validly formed. A lot of what you are referring to as facts are what I am contending are assumptions. For instance #3, all are non-muslim. Please explain how the shooter made any effort to learn the religion of his victims to make sure they were non-muslim? and, BTW, what were the religious beliefs of each of the victims? I'm not suggesting that you are wrong, but I haven't heard this mentioned in any of the articles I've had time to read and would like to know for curiosities sake. I'm assuming (assuming by my standard, deducing by your standard) that you must know since you would have to know this to know they are all non-muslim.

Also, #1, they are all american. Seems like at least one was an immigrant, but I didn't pay that much attention to nationalities. Again, as in #3, could you inform me? Possibly a naturalized citizen? And how did the shooter determine this?

As for #2, They're all non Arab. So are the shooters. Both of them. One Jamacian and one American, from my understanding. Neither of them look to be of Arab origin.

As for #4, I concur that this is true. As far as anyone can tell at this point anyway, and I doubt it will be shown to be otherwise. This is the type of statement we can eventually use to form some type of dedcution, if we can connect it to other equally valid observations.

#5, the times of day they were killed. This is wild assumption if you are implying that they were killing on a schedule based on the prayer cycle of muslims. How many minutes out of 24 hours do Muslim prayers last, and wouldnm't it be equally valid to assume that the percentage of time in a day occupied by muslim prayer could just as easily account for this? Has anyone given any evidence that the shooter or shooters observe muslim prayer schedules?

As for the training tapes. Thirty years ago both Klan and Panther types talked about the same things. This is hardly anything new or exclusive to Al Queda. Unless it can be shown that one or both of the shooters actually had access to these tapes, they are irrelevant and cannot be used for deduction in any manner in this case.

So, out of six points you claim to be facts which can be used for deduction, we agree on only one as fgact. I assert that the others either are, or must be considered, to be speculation not fact. Providing supporting evidence for these statements (factual not speculative) would change my opinion. I invite you to provide me with this evidence for both of our benefit.

BTH, Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character. He is not a reall live detective that has written some type of criminal dudecution training manual. In fiction it is the author, not reality, determine the outcome.

[Concentrate]

It's willful negligence, imo, and Moose should be jailed. It's an elementary procedure, isn't it, and would've taken 5 seconds to run that search? But, nooooooooooo . . . they were having too much fun inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of commuters and yanking white guys out of their trucks, throwing them to the ground, and handcuffing them. A big dog and pony show.

Excellent post LW!

[ActionNewsBill]

The sniper was caught because he WANTED to be caught and/or was so stupid he unintentionally turned himself in, essentially confessing all the needed facts in a telephone call....

The sniper was / is a CIA mind control subject who allowed himself to be "caught" when his alternate programming was activated after the "caught like a duck in a noose" comments read by Chief Moose at the press conference shortly before his "arrest".

Remember how the Chief stressed that it was "important for you to hear us say this"?

There's much more going on here than we are being told about.

[templar]

The guy is one, admittedly.

When has he admitted to this? I wasn't aware he had done so, or that any of what he has said, other than the letter, has been made public. A public statement by him tht he was engaged in Islamic terrorism, and not just plain old psycho/hate murder, would certainly change my thoughts that he might not be one.

The question is, why are you defending them?

Where have I defended them? I simply want to know the truth about the what and why of what they were doing. If they were terrorists, they were terrorists. If they were psycho murders, they were psycho murders. If they were homo's lashing out against a perceived homophobic world, then I would like to know that. If they were lashing out against 500 years of white opression of blacks in this country I want know that as well. I don't ssume that every violent incident in this country by a black, or muslim, or catholic, is an act of political terrorism.

[FR_addict]

Uh, actually, if recent trends are any indication, the cops can shoot damned near anyone they want and get away with it. Cops are rarely charged with shooting even unarmed civilians. The unarmed Maryland kid who was shot in the face while obeying police orders to get out of the car comes to mind; the thug who shot him is still walking around a free man.

I believe that guy was FBI, not the police. The FBI and ATF are a different story.

I support the LELDF (Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund). There have been some real horror stories about criminal charges lodged against police just doing their job. Most of the time, the evidence is clearly on the side of the policeman, but some PC group demands the the policeman's prosecution.

[Texas Mom]

We have to play by the rules, criminals don't. The rules get more restrictive all the time. Think about a federal lawsuit if you pull over a vehicle with the wrong people in it. Makes you wonder if the job's worth doing at all when you might get indicted for a civil rights violation for doing your job.

I was talking about this today. This could have all be avoided in Montgomery Ala. and there wouldn't have been a belt way sniper. The Cop said when he arrived on the scene of the liquor store killing, the perp was standing over the victim and ran away. The Cop chased him but he got away. What ever happened to " Halt or I'll shoot."? Then shoot. Now all the cop can do is say " Halt or I'll say halt again."

[Redbob]

Same mentality that prevents airport security from paying any particular attention to young Islamic males...

[Marianne]

Why would fingerprints of a 17-year-old illegal alien, which had been taken by the INS and entered into a national database, be locked away in the files of the Washington State juvenile justice system and unavailable to local or state police? Malvo had only been charged, not convicted. That boggles my mind. (see article below)
Excerpt:
AFTER THOUSANDS OF CALLS, 3 CRACK THE CASE
Buffalo News/Washington Post October 25, 2002
LINK
      "Police thought the motive for the crime was robbery but weren't sure, and had run out of leads. They had some physical evidence that tantalized the investigators from Washington: a fingerprint, lifted from a magazine about guns and ammunition that had been dropped at the scene.
     FBI agents flew to Alabama on Monday to examine the evidence. . . .
      Investigators ran the fingerprint through some national databases . . .
      The INS charged Malvo and his mother with illegally entering the country and took their fingerprints, . . ."

[schmelvin]

It's willful negligence, imo, and Moose should be jailed. It's an elementary procedure, isn't it, and would've taken 5 seconds to run that search? But, nooooooooooo . . . they were having too much fun inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of commuters and yanking white guys out of their trucks, throwing them to the ground, and handcuffing them. A big dog and pony show.

I know Moose is rabidly against racial profiling. Before he was run out of Portland, he endorsed anti-racial profiling measures that were lauded by those in the PC camp as historic. I've, also, heard, but cannot confirm (until I run a search, which I intend to do), that after the 9-11-01 attacks, Moose refused to investigate possible Middle Eastern terrorist suspects, because that would be *gasp* racial profiling.

In his search for the DC area shooters, Moose was willing to employ geographic profiling, psychological profiling, but never once did he mention racial profiling. Of course, by racial profiling, I mean: The willingness to entertain the possibility that the suspect is anything but white.

Some Moose quotes:

On Tuesday, Moose said "the task force has at least a "partial" description of suspects who he suggested are minorities. But he elected not to release the information, explaining it might 'paint some group.'"

"And if it somehow paints some group or causes people to be misidentified and causes them some hardship. That is the dilemma we want to stay away from."

In an article from abc.net.au, Moose states that he doesn't want to "muddy the waters" by releasing a composite sketch of the shooter too soon saying, "The concern is that we pollute the whole thought process, we cause people to have tunnel vision, think they see what they heard on TV and mix that up with reality." (OK, fair enough, I can understand that Moose would want to be cautious about releasing information that could be misleading or based on conflicting witness accounts, but then!:)

Chief Moose released a composite image of an older model, mid-sized commercial truck, with light damage to its right rear bumper and black lettering -- a row of large black block letters above a row of smaller letters, on each side.

Chief Moose said the white truck, which has a roll-up door at the rear, was seen at more than one of the shootings by more than one witness and he asked the media to distribute it widely.

Talk about polluting the thought process and causing people to have "tunnel vision"! Everyone was looking for the wrong vehicle!

The police claimed they were concerned about releasing misleading information to the public, but it seemed to me they were only cautious when it came to releasing any information that might suggest that the shooters were anything but white.

[Libertina]

About 10 seconds after the shooting, a witness saw a dark-colored Chevrolet Caprice creep away from the scene with its lights off. The witness later reported the sighting to police.
But the police were LOOKING FOR WHITES IN A WHITE VAN! Unbelievable. I pray ALL Americans (especially those who vote Dumocrat) read this!

[Polybius]

I was posting from memory and do not recall which article I saw it in. But your article confirms the fact that local Alabama Police had a fingerprint and could not identify it.

From other articles, it seems that the fingerprint dated from September 21.

Only when the Feds got involved, could the fingerprint be identified on Monday, October 21.

As I recall, the article stated that the Feds used a database "not available to local police". As I recall, the juvenile status also had something to do with it.

[evad]

As Sherlock Holmes would say, "Elementary, my dear Watson." ;^)

Yes..and with that 20/20 hindsight it turns out he was right. This thing was pretty elementary except that it broke the serial killer mold that the talking heads love to love.

I remember a zillion years ago in school when we were taught in Logic 101 that deductive reasoning would not always be possible. In those cases we would use inductive reasoning, make an assumption and prove the assumption true or false.

Anyway, I've enjoyed bantering on this and learned a little in the process. I would hope/assume that's what this forum is about ;-)

Peace..and good night.

[templar]

Anyway, I've enjoyed bantering on this and learned a little in the process. I would hope/assume that's what this forum is about ;-) Peace..and good night.

Been fun.

Peace be with you also.

[evad]

And to top it all off this POS is a homosexual ..

I agree that it's probably the case but other than conjecture on this site, do you have any links to support this.