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Posted on 10/22/2002 11:24:51 AM PDT by shrinkermd
I disagree with your summation. By far the majority of these posts are from we males who have either experienced similar fates or know of friends, relatives, and acquaintances who have gone through exactly the same situations themselves.
What took so long?
Bloody hell, does that ring a bell.
Some years ago I was going through the breakup of a relationship. I was walking past the couch one morning, and noticed a small piece of paper on it. It was a message someone had written to My then fiancee, which in essence let Me know that she had been 'intimate' with him.
That was it for Me. I confronted her with it, and informed her that we were going our separate ways henceforth, the traitorous wench! Did she show the slightest bit of guilt or remorse concerning her actions? No, her position was that I was the worst jerk in the world for obviously having been snooping through her purse.
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Nick; good to know you are still about. This is exactly how we males feel and what we understand.
Of course. That's because this is a male bitching thread.
I tried to insert a bit of balance with my story of being a good wife and mother who stayed with her husband through his illness until he died five years ago leaving me with our four sons to raise, no house, no life insurance, no career..... and no regrets. I did the right thing.
Let's just ignore Valerie's personal anecdote - it doesn't fit the male victimology agenda.
I am sorry, but I disagree with you. When women complain (granted, women tend to vocalize more) we males are expected to understand and be supportive. Here is a thread where we are responding to specific complaints -and making many valid points, and your summarization is a dismissive slang term for irritable unsubstantiated complaining for it's own sake? You could learn a lot from some of the points raised.
You see, men do not have an intrisnic need to spend time complaining about issues. We tend to be more straightforward and attempt to deal with the problem directly in an effort to resolve it.
There were several posts here where the men all made essentially the same point. I feel saddened that you are apparently ignoring quite a few excellent comments. You might have been able to help some others if you would only take the time to look at the validity of the responses.
Cause they are thinking with the big head instead of the little head?
SO9
As a man in his early twenties,I thought I should make my contribution to this thread, and ping the more active contributors to this thread.
I think clamper1797 has brought a very important point. As the old saying goes "nice guys finish last." This is particularly true in the "game" of love. I'm in my last semester in college, and to tell the truth, I don't have much experience with dating, outside of a few months in my junior year of college. To get right to my point, I think the current situation in "courtship" (if you even can call it that) leaves guys like me out in the cold and bitter.
In my university setting, most college students are into the "hook up" phenomenon. Masses of students roam the streets of the town on the weekends, looking for parties to go to, or if they're old enough, line up in front of the bars. Many of them get drunk, and "hook up" with the nearest "desirable" member of the opposite sex. This "hook up" can mean anything from sloppy kissing to sexual intercourse.
Frankly, I have found this situation downright repulsive. The phenomenon dominates the student body. It's very hard for people "like me" (i.e. not into that scene, looking for intelligence, decent, moral, etc.) to find each other for various reasons. I was lucky to find my current close group of friends (even though they're a bunch of raging liberals...but I keep them on their toes). From my experience, contrary to what people are trying to tell me, the situation for people like me is NOT going to get better. These people have been corrupted by the "values" of our times, and they will probably stay that way. I refuse to even consider going out with any woman who is like the women on my campus...trashy, shallow, anti-intellectual, and on and on.
I will admit, I am an "abnormal" male. My faith and values are very important to me. I am a hopeless romantic. I care about getting married someday. I care about finding the "right" woman. I want to raise children. Family, knowledge, and music are more important to me than earning enough money to buy a mansion or drive a Lexus. If I could find a decent young lady, I would give her everything I can give. But the current situation with young men and women, and my own life experience, leaves me suspicious of most women, cynical, and bitter, and I hate feeling that way.
All of this is why I have largely kissed dating goodbye (I hope to read the book of the same title someday). To some reading this, I may seem whiney or think I'm a "girly man" or whatever, but I really don't care what you think. I just wanted to say that there are scores of young men and women like myself out there who are disillusioned with this almost hopeless situation, and we're trying to cope with it the best we can.
Speaking for Myself: yes. Most women are more apt to complain -ahem, excuse Me; "talk about" a difficulty than attempt to resolve it. Not accusing you of the same, merely a generalization.
"Who is expecting you males to be supportive and understanding? Like that's gonna happen!"
I was referring to all the women's support groups, female-specific agencys, and the majority of females that continually stress that very complaint; that we are NOT supportive or understanding enough.
"Here I am being a realistic woman, and you don't like it. Y'all would much rather think we're creatures of fantasy, greed, immorality and delusion just looking to hitch a ride on your blazing stars. Shine on all alone - it doesn't bother me a tiny bit. Why should it?"
You are right; your realistic attitude deserves praise and understanding, and I am very proud of you not being bothered by all those males' 'shining on alone.' We certainly could not be responding on this thread because we actually WANT to find a good woman to bring happiness and fulfilment in out lives. It must be because our 'blazing stars' are so bright we must not allow those cruel women access to them.
"You think I could learn a lot from these posts -- like what? What can I learn that I don't know? Some men and some women screw each other sometimes. That's really helpful. I feel so educated now"
You know, My post was not intended to be a personal attack upon you, but a constructive criticism on how addressing the specific responsis posted might be a better attitude to take than outright dismissal of the points raised.
"I do not feel an intrinsic need to complain about issues. I haven't complained here. I've just made a few observations and told my story matter-of-factly. How does that equate to "ignoring quite a few excellent comments"? Just what am I supposed to say to these excellent comments? Beg forgiveness?"
Ummm, My comment was: "...men do not have an intrisnic need to spend time complaining about issues." I did not say "...men do not have an intrisnic need to spend time complaining about issues LIKE YOU." It was a generic observation, not a personal accusation.
My point is that this thread is filled with men gamely trying to explain why they are so reluctant to enter into marriage, in as forthright and self-examinatory manner as they can. This thread was not started by some poor sod making a Vanity Post complaining about "Why are women always expecting us to marry them?", but in response to a 'study' wherein some quite flippant comments and nonserious or slanted generalizations were made. Most decent men do indeed want to meet that special someone, and settle down and raise a family. It is just that the attitudes of women in general (NOT you!) and the potential ruinization of our lives has made us quite reluctant to do so. Try to understand. We DO want a wonderful partner and all the rest of it. We are simply attempting to explain all the negative potentials that exist on that path for us.
Too true. After such a spectacular summation, I am having some difficulty following that one up.
Sometimes it works the other way, too. I am no saint, and am imperfect as the next fellow, but I have provided well for my wife and two kids since the early 1980s, almost exclusively providing all material support and upper-middle class life. Additionally, I run most of the errands, juggle the schedules, and do all of the ironing, all of the dishes, some of the cooking, all of the outside work, most of the grocery shopping, and countless other tasks.
For this I receive little or no respect or appreciation, receive very little intimacy or sex, and am constantly told that I am the failure in this marriage because I don't provide enough respect or affection for her. In fact, I am the one in counseling because she refuses to go and will not engage in any physical activity unless I "get healed."
People, including the counselor, ask me why I stay in such a ridiculous one-sided relationship. It's simple, I love my children and I am not going to give her 50% of what I have amassed financially.
I think you're absolutely right. It's just there are WAY TOO MANY chicks of that type. Sanctuary! I seek a sanctuary from these vile temptresses! Lol...
Nice girls are not in the normal places. Start looking under rocks and in caves.
I figured that out a long time ago. It sounds like I need to get a hard hat, a flashlight, and some equipment and go spelunking! ;-)
Thank you for your great comments. You've got it nailed.
Burritos and Labatt's here, but the idea is the same...
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I try to look at this strictly from the point of view of the system itself... what incentives are built into it, and how might we expect a rational actor to behave in such a system.