Why Men Won't Commit: Men's Atitudes About Sex, Dating and Marriage

National Marriage Project (Rutgers University) ^ | 2002 | Barbara Dafoe Whitehead and David Popenoe

[John Lenin]

Good for you Val, my mom raised two boys by herself with no help. It's tough.

[FlyVet]

Several men took the view that men had to be careful because women "want to get married just to have kids."

Oh, I must be out of touch. Do they still call them kids? I thought they were just bargaining chips.

[Cacique]

eternaly single and free bump

[BOOTSTICK]

Also men risk the stigma of being labled a molester, and NEVER SEEING THEIR CHILDREN AGAIN, if the marrage goes south. Which is what happened to a prominant judge here a few years back.

[ValerieUSA]

There shouldn't be a competition. If a man wants to compete with a woman's children for her attention, then he isn't the right one to marry. A man who will be a partner and help her with the children will get a partner in return. Together they should be a family.

I wouldn't ask a question like, "Should a man's first obligation be to his job or to his wife?"
It's a useless question that excludes reality.

[BOOTSTICK]

Come on, all's a man has to do for sex, is to go to some "Oakie" singles bar, flash some nice jewlery, and he will attract some twentysomething, who had her 1st kid at 15 yrs, works at the kash n' karry for min wage, and is hard up for a ticket out of palookaville.

[gogeo]

I don't think it's a useless question. It's a question that guys ask themselves in that situation, and it's evident how they are answering it. It's a question you may choose not to consider, but that's not the same thing.




When a couple marries (neither having children) they are the focus of each other. New moms change their focus to the child. In some sense, the hubby is playing second fiddle. I adjusted when the child was my daughter; we're asking a lot of human nature to ask someone to do so for a child not their own.



JMHO.

[ValerieUSA]

Playing second fiddle..... that's a strange view of family life from an adult. It sounds more like the helpless resentment of childish sibling rivalry.

Oh well, guys can ask themselves all the questions, and then come up with all the answers. I'll just hush up.

[goodieD]

bravo!

[M. Peach]

I realize this is an old thread, but I was enthralled with the variety of opinions - yours in particular. I was in my early 30's when I got married to a woman with one kid. Wow, did she change after we had one, then two - and adopted another one.

To make a long story short - I was averaging 100 to 150g's - nice house - great vacations- fabulous cars - marriage got sour after second year - I stuck it out 16 more for the children - became ill - then she told me to leave OUR house, result?

She kept the house and all the equity - she kept custody of the kids (I got every other weekend) - Judge split the debt - she filed bankruptcy - I ended up with all the debt (more than 50 G's - no house - rarely see the kids - nearly broke - had to start all over...

The system truly sucks - unbelievably unfair .....I wish I had your insight when I was your age....

P.S. - The best thing out of this mess was my kids - I truly love them and cherish the time I get to be with them...

[Z in Oregon]

If a man wants to compete with a woman's children for her attention, then he isn't the right one to marry. A man who will be a partner and help her with the children will get a partner in return.

That contains a rather entrenched presumption of maternal primacy.

Many fathers would make excellent primary caregivers of their children; their wives can "help" raise the kids.

[Z in Oregon]

Lady Susan: you asked where the fathers were. Post #250 on this thread will tell you.

Valerie, that all-too-common tale might interest you too.

M. Peach, sorry things went so awry. The feminist movement has used the family courts to launch a war on fathers. What happened to you has happened to millions of other good fathers, for no good reason, simply as a product of a systemic anti-father ideology. Check out this.

[Z in Oregon]

Oh, I must be out of touch. Do they still call them kids? I thought they were just bargaining chips.

They call them Little Tommy MealTicket and Little Suzy SupportCheck.

I've seen lots of kids mistreated by welfare mommas who are living off of what comes in from the BeatDead Dad and the Big Government Substitute Husband. Intended for the kids, the money goes to the welfare momma's good times with her serial shack-up boyfriends, while the kids dress in rags and eat unflavored gruel.

Not the America the founding fathers wanted.

Then again, they had automatic father custody of all a couple's children, which needs to be reclaimed ASAP.

[rdb3]

eternaly single and free bump

That's what I used to say. But on November 8th, my wife and I will celebrate our sixth wedding anniversary.

Never say never! ;-)

And, yes, I'm extremely happy.

[rdb3]

I've seen lots of kids mistreated by welfare mommas who are living off of what comes in from the BeatDead Dad and the Big Government Substitute Husband. Intended for the kids, the money goes to the welfare momma's good times with her serial shack-up boyfriends, while the kids dress in rags and eat unflavored gruel.

Welcome to E. Cleveland. Tell me about it.

[TigerLikesRooster]

Re #229

Such an woman can be called a "female-chauvinist".

[gogeo]

Playing second fiddle..... that's a strange view of family life from an adult. It sounds more like the helpless resentment of childish sibling rivalry. Oooookay.......

[ValerieUSA]

The assumption of maternal primacy came from the original question, which was about women with children entering a second marriage.

[ValerieUSA]

You have selective vision - only seeing the kids who are abused by moms who neglect them and the men abused by women who only want money for a good time.
I read Peach's story. There's nothing I can do about his situation - just as there is nothing anyone can do about mine. I refuse to draw sweeping general conclusions.

[right2parent]

They call them Little Tommy MealTicket and Little Suzy SupportCheck.

The term you're looking for is "Mutilated Beggars."

In many large cities of the East there are begging rings headed by rascals who kidnap children and mutilate them for use as beggars. The more pitiable and grotesque the mutilations, the more the beggars earn. The alms go to the owners of the begging ring. (From: The Case for Father Custody and Garbage Generation by Daniel Amneus, Ph.D.)