Beltway Sniper Shootings-FR Commentary-Monday, Oct. 21, 2002

Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences | October 21, 2002 | Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences

[Peach]

Let's keep a live commentary thread going again today. The FBI Tip # is 1-888-324-9800.

[yukong]

I recognize what you have said, but maybe debg has hit it. Terror for terror sake. Poppyseed, if it is some loner, looser type, who is craving power, I would question whether he really is feeling power when no one but he knows who the powerful "god" person he is. Most of the time, when a person is craving power, they need attention, (direct open attention) to feel that true power. They need to be seen by people. Not saying you are wrong, but it just seems that way to me. If he were grabbing his victims and taking them out somewhere and slowly killing them while looking in their eyes, so that they could feel his power, and he could thrive on that fear of his power, then I would tend to agree with you. From my past experience, when you have a power crazed killer, rapist, whatever, they want that up-close and personal kill. The one where they look in the vics eyes, and the vic looks in theirs as they die. That is the true power rush. That is when you feel most "god" like. When the victim can feel his power and know that this perp can give them life, or take that life. This guy is a distance killer. Doesn't even really know, until the media reports, whether he kills or not. Actually the killing is not the absolute point. Safety is the point. Thus Terror.

Naspino: Again, a person such as you describe is someone who craves attention. Craves the spotlight. Craves the knowledge of his greatness. This guy has done everything but that. The person you describe wants his initials or name in the high score column. That way, all the other players can see just how great he is.

Not being dogmatic here. Just trying to analyze this thing as best as I can. Based on my experience in the area of murder investigation and prosecution.

[lonevoice]

Very good post. Please share your thoughts on the 2-3 reasons when you've developed them a bit.

Without some manifesto, or some public communication with the media/public, we are left with only a few reasons. Actually only 2-3 reasons. Still processing those, but the more this goes on, the less I am inclined to believe it is home grown.

[LisaFab]

Was it Thursday or Friday of last week when they could not decide whether they were goin to up the alert status and then decided to leave it where it was because they said all LE had been informed?

I remember. Makes you think doesn;t it?

Well, the great thing about all of our theories is if they ever get these guys (guy/gal) we will be able to claim that FR HAD IT RIGHT FIRST!

[AmericanInTokyo]

Anybody who thinks ONE PERSON is the 'perp' after nearly FOUR WEEKS OF THIS in the Nation's Capital-area, while there is a complete mobiliazation of the FBI, ATF, Local and State, (CIA was also mentioned on one report), INS, Pentagon.....well then, they really have a terribly disjointed if not vivid imagination!

I still stand my ground with many Freepers here (mocked now on national TV shows by talking head 'former'-this and 'former'-that, as "crackpots on so-called internet news threads") and say that after this is all over, there will be multiple arrests (or a shootout with multiple carcasses) of people of Middle East extraction, or co-opted Americans of black/hispanic background who became Alpha Tango (arab terrorist) supporters through prison or anti-US leftist gigs aka Portland and Lackwanna and Laurel, Maryland.

I'll bet the snipers will look a lot like this bag of jokers, sent up on trial today in Buffalo, NY (below)

And these threatened and mocked up in NY today "Amerikka is in for a real big fight!"

[AmericanInTokyo]

See my most recent post about the pseudo LEO "experts" on our national TV BLATANTLY ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room (international terrorism) and how they are now mocking and dismissing certain "crackpot theories on so-called internet news sites"). Have they been told a party line to avoid 'panic' or 'hate crimes'?

And, does anyone ever expect these horn-rimmed eyeglass boys who havent a clue to apologize after this is over and hang up their high paying consulting gigs?

[Naspino]

You said it -- high score column. Thats what he's doing right now. The thrill is not in taking power over his victims so that they know he's in control. Its in taking power over his victims so that YOU know he's in control. That he can kill you at his pleasure and no one can stop him or save you. He's done better than the kind of SK that you talked about -- he's taken control over millions of people (thanks to the news). Like I said I think he stumbled in to it -- that the first day was a suicide trip and he accidentally got away and now its like a surreal realization to him; that he can kill and not be captured so long as he tows this formula. He's milking it now - reacting to the media "experts" predictions -- learning from the "experts" on how to avoid the military planes, how to escape road blocksm, etc. If it were a foreign terrorist I think he'd get more valuable targets. Take away the media and there is no fear, no story here. There are more proficient serial killers in operation today than this guy; the difference is -- he could be a terrorist and thats why the media is there to find out one way or the other. If they knew for certain today that he wasn't a terrorist then the cameras would be shipped back to the home office.

[John Jamieson]

That was OnStar. Phone plus GPS.

[LisaFab]

If WMD's are involved, do you still think Bush would not be making the decisions?

I think that Bush is in the loop already at a purely strategic level, that is, putting a single dept (FBI?) head at the top of the chain of command here. If it becomes clear that WMDs are involved, I believe he would be involved at the same level as he already is in the War on Terror as a whole.

[aristeides]

And, does anyone ever expect these horn-rimmed eyeglass boys who havent a clue to apologize after this is over and hang up their high paying consulting gigs?

They've proved themselves qualified for the gigs. They've shown they can spout the party line.

[Lobbyist]

Just wondering...With your law enforcement background would it be fair to say that perhaps the killer(s) are actually farther way from their target than what we are being told?

[stlnative]

Did anyone just hear what they said on MSNBC... something about the police did not make or catch the call on time and it resulted in the garbled message?

[yukong]

I'm not married to the lone-gunman theory. But the longer this goes, the more I am inclined to believe it is one or at the least a very small group. To pull this off, for this long, requires a small operation. You cannot have several members of a cell or whatever you want to call it, moving around all over the area. It is just too cumbersome and dangerous for the group. My thought would be more something along the line that there is one shooter, with a small support group that recons locations, but are no where to be found when the shoot goes down. Too many people trying to flee a shoot scene is just too obvious and open. This guy needs a low sight level. 2-3+ people make you too big of an object for observation. And, the more people involved, the more chances you take that someone will squeal. I guess, if I had to make a final decision today, I would say, that if it is a home-grown nut, it is a lone gunman. If it is terror related, (Islamic) then I would say it is a lone-gunman with a small support group that shelters him when he is not on a run, and they do the recon for him, unarmed, and unobvious. That would explain the sheet of paper they found at one of the earlier shootings that gave directions to the shoot scene. But either way, it is a very, very small group.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Note the 'burqa-ed" and "chadol-ed" female individuals of interest in the front row of the spectator seating in court in NY today for the Buffalo Six. Wonder which one had a machinegun hidden under 'abaya' from time to time... (photo in #1044)

[poppyseed]

Good thoughts, yukong, and I see what you're saying. But I'm wondering if the massive press attention has served that need, to an extent, so far. I also wonder if perhaps the guy (assuming it's one of the homegrowncrazy variety) has started taking subjects who are not alone (the last two shootings) to get a bit more reaction at the time of impact. As if maybe seeing a lone body crumple to the ground isn't enough any more, and he needs to see some reaction that's more personal and immediate than the flurry of police/media activity that follows. You know, gets some jollies from seeing the horrified spouse of the victim. If this is the case, I'd reckon the guy has moved beyond attention-getting spree killing and then precise, cold shooting to more needing the kills, and, more importantly, the reaction to the kills. And if this is the case, I would guess the end is near. As long as he kept his cool, he was OK. But he's starting to need it, and some of his reactions to media reports seem to be a little less a matter of toying with police/public than desperation, as when the ex-Marine in Boston was being questioned and the shooter flew out in seeming haste to prove that the media was giving the wrong guy HIS (the sniper's) press.

My boyfriend speculates that beyond personal gratification/glory and theories that relate to my earlier post, the sniper is merely trying to commit a string of perfect murders. Just for sh!ts and giggles. To see if he can. To challenge himself. I believe he may be onto something, but again, I think it's gone beyond the detachment the shooter THINKS he feels and that the need (for attention, for more kills, for more challenge, whatever) is beginning to overtake him and control him more than he's controlling it.

I guess the truth will out, eventually. I just hope the guy's taken alive so we'll be let in on some of the secrets and motivations at the conclusion of the drama.

I've enjoyed your comments a lot, yukong. Keep it up!

[AmericanInTokyo]

They probably did not have their Arabic language interpreter on the extension with the note pad ready.

[stlnative]

MSNBC just said that only 25% of the phone call came through. Something about sniper using a voice changer.

[Peach]

The sniper is using a voice changer? Are these easily obtainable?

[poppyseed]

The thrill is not in taking power over his victims so that they know he's in control. Its in taking power over his victims so that YOU know he's in control. That he can kill you at his pleasure and no one can stop him or save you. He's done better than the kind of SK that you talked about -- he's taken control over millions of people (thanks to the news). Like I said I think he stumbled in to it -- that the first day was a suicide trip and he accidentally got away and now its like a surreal realization to him; that he can kill and not be captured so long as he tows this formula. He's milking it now - reacting to the media "experts" predictions -- learning from the "experts" on how to avoid the military planes, how to escape road blocksm, etc.

Right on. I just tried to say this, and said it badly. But this is what I meant. Thanks. : )

[Sacajaweau]

Why the hell didn't they just follow the van...without the gun, I'm not sure they have a case.

Sac

[Naspino]

I think you're on the right wavelength. I thought the same thing when he killed the woman in front of her husband. It created an outrage I think larger than the previous killings; knowing that this man had to witness his wife's murder and be powerless against it. He'll keep stepping up the game; I think possibly targeting police or FBI on duty or an elected official nearing the election for the sake of media attention and sending a sense of helplessness to the people. The media is the problem -- remove the media and I think he'll make a real mistake trying to get them back.