Drivers of White Vans are being treated as criminals

Vanity | Self

[SamAdams76]

The photos above currently on the Drudge site concern me. I followed the link and the article clearly stated that nobody was arrested last night.

Why then, do we have drivers of white vans, innocent civilians, evidently being pulled out vans at gunpoint and treated like dangerous criminals? One photo shows a man on the ground, evidently in handcuffs, with police officers standing over him as though they have just captured Whitey Bulger. When I first saw the photo, I figured the man was obviously a wanted criminal that police just so happened to come across during their search. But since there were no arrests last night, this man was obviously released and was no criminal after all.

The other photo shows a man by another white van with his hands in the air and a police officer has a gun drawn on him. Again, this was evidently just another innocent civilian who had the misfortune to be driving a white van on I-95 last night.

Now I understand the need for these roadblocks and for the police to be very thorough in their search for the sniper(s). But I cannot see the point of innocent people dragged out of their vehicles at gunpoint with no pretext other than the fact that they happen to be driving a white van.

Now maybe somebody here has an explanation why these two individuals were treated like criminals. Maybe they tried to evade the police or maybe they were driving stolen vans. But again, there were no arrests made last night. So what is the deal with our citizens being treated like Jesse James just for driving a white van?

[HairOfTheDog]

Nice post.... and those before it.

It is frustrating to hear so many FReepers who have gotten themselves twisted around into an US versus THEM mentality toward the police. Of course the police have a lot of power. We have to give them the power to do their jobs. We have to watch them of course, but never forget that they are citizens too, acting on our behalf to enforce the laws and constitution we so love. Their job is harder and more valuable than mine, certainly. They deserve our respect, our appreciation, and our support.

Freedom does not mean you will never ever be inconvenienced by the state. It means that you have the right to a due process. This is the due process of catching a killer.

[cynicom]

Spirited....

Too many cops want to be cops because they can carry a big gun and roust the citizens nearly at will. The video a few weeks ago of CA cops wearing out the perp kid on the hood of a car says it all.

Rousting an innocent person facedown on the dirty pavement says much about the cops. No where is it written that cops have the "right" to force someone to the pavement because they are looking for a bad person. It would seem logical to determine "if" you have the bad person you are looking for.

Nothing tells the cop that the perp is not a black woman, not a thing. Yet we see no black women face down in the dirt. If she is driving a white van, why not?????

If a witness says "I saw a white young male, crewcut, in a white van driving away", that is something to go on. These cops had absolutely zero, nothing, nada to go on. Not a shred of information.

[SamAdams76]

Well remember the National Guard is supposed to be utilized stateside for national emergencies and defense purposes. Stationing National Guard troops in the woods with night-vision goggles is not the same as posting regular Army troops or Marines on U.S. soil. I don't think the Constitutionalists should have a problem with that.

[PatrioticAmerican]

"3) Legally, of course, probable cause exists to stop all these Vans, "

Are you sure? Was there a description of a white vehicle for that shooting? For all shootings? A connection of this shooting to all the other shootings? Which white vehicle, all of them, any white vehicle? Traveling in which direction? A description of the driver? Any witnesses to the vehicle involved?

I don't think there was a vehicle description given nor a tie to other crimes, so where is the probable cause?

[FormerLurker]

You assume these people are "innocent." That guy handcuffed on the street was not handcuffed for simply driving a white van. He may well have had an outstanding warrant. The picture doesn't really tell us.

It has been reported that there were NO arrests made that night. So no, the person didn't have an outstanding warrant.

[Spirited]

"I mean the people in the pictures do look rather seedy."

Chief Moose doesn't?>

[cidrasm]

Ok, I'll play. They can't do that because we don't have satellite assets capable of doing just what you said. If you had proposed UAVs instead, then it would be plausible.

There's a good article here on FR (search on satellite I think) that explains how Hollywood has given intel sats capabilities beyond their current levels to make up for a poor plot line. Bottom line, low earth orbit satellites with sub-meter resolution move too fast in their orbit to maintain station for the period of time you require and no clouds. Geosync satellites orbit at 22,300 miles up and do not possess optics capable of distinguishing a single person.

[PatrioticAmerican]

"It is frustrating to hear so many FReepers who have gotten themselves twisted around into an US versus THEM mentality toward the police."

Actually, it is more frustrating to hear police spout the "us v them" crap and to have sheeple think that is a valid point of view for the police to have.

[rintense]

Perhaps not Constitutionalist, but tin foil types... of course, we don't have any of those on FR. :)

[FormerLurker]

Geosync satellites orbit at 22,300 miles up and do not possess optics capable of distinguishing a single person.

That you know of...

You HAVE heard of the Hubble Space Telescope haven't you? Imagine what something that powerful would see if it was turned towards the Earth.

[SamAdams76]

You HAVE heard of the Hubble Space Telescope haven't you? Imagine what something that powerful would see if it was turned towards the Earth.

It would be able to read the fine print on my cell phone agreement. Well, maybe not that good.

[Iron Eagle]

Are you sure?

Yes Iron Eagle, esquire, is sure, your questions not withstanding.

[PatrioticAmerican]

" Probably just those who are …not answering reasonable questions."

That is a reason for arrest? You have a warped sense of

“If you haven't got the guts to be out there with them, then SHUT UP!”

Sorry, big guy, but the right to question authority is a basic necessity for a free society. Obviously, your opinion is that ANYTHING is justified in police work.

I’d like to respond with this: Why don’t YOU go out there and make find the guy instead of cowering behind the police to do your dirty work for you? I don’t see your butt out there anywhere, but you sure do think that the rest of us ought to put up with anything the police might want to do.

[cidrasm]

The reason the HST is in orbit is to overcome atmospheric distortion. Please research this subject a little more. Bottom line, your satellite idea isn't there yet technologically, but using cameras mounted on UAVs like we did in Afganistan is doable.

[PatrioticAmerican]

Travis McGee had that same thought. What if, and this is a BIG IF, the shooters are supported by others sympathetic to their actions, giving them a place to hide WITHIN the dragnet area?

[McGavin999]

I'm saying that you can't sit at your keyboard and complain about someone being dragged out of a van when you have no idea what was said or what the circumstances are. These officers are going up to strange vehicles within site of a recent killing looking for an obviously dangerous person. That is not the time to be spouting off about Article IV.

The Constitution was written for the people. It was written so the average uneducated American of an agricultural society in the 1700's could understand and function as an individual most of the time, and as a united people during times of duress. This is obviously a time of duress.

I have a deep and abiding love of the Constitution. I'm sick of it being twisted to mean whatever anyone wants it to mean. It means exactly what it says. Article IV protects us against unreasonable search and seizure. There is NOTHING unreasonable about asking to search a vehicle of whatever color on a street that has been used as an escape route immediately following another bloody and senseless crime.

This is not Iraq, this will never be Iraq. If the government just decided to throw up a roadblock to check vehicles for miscellaneous guns it would be a different matter, but obviously, that is not the case here. I find it ridiculous that anyone would even try to equate the two. If we don't start pulling together as a country we're never going to defeat the threats we are facing. Bashing the police for trying to protect us under these circumstances are not only counterproductive, they are downright dangerous.

[Iron Eagle]

I am sure that the reporters were not talking about all possible arrests. Only arrests "related" to the sniper attacks. I am sure there were arrests made in Virginia that night. Obviously, hysteria TV is only interested in the arrests made related to that case.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for sharing your concerns!

My LE relative is no "scardy cat" but anyone who gets confrontational with him in a routine stop can indeed expect to be "humiliated." I support him and other policemen fully - as I would support you in a similar situation if you were a civilian law enforcement officer.

My two cents is that our country works because of the rule of law, because people take it seriously and make a bona fide effort to comply. Should the public at large become lawless, the country would implode.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Translation: Cops are scardy cats, so be prepared to suffer humiliation and indignity for this fact.

You want to know what suffering is?

A cop in my area tried to stop a naked perp from threatening people in their cars one afternoon, when the perp grabbed his gun and shot him in the back as he tried to get away. Then, as he lay there bleeding, the perp walked up and shot him exectution-style in the back of the head. He died in the street.

That's what suffering is.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't hear any police here badmouthing the citizenry. I do see a lot of conservatives belching crap about the police all being idiots, power mongers, scaredy cats or other school-yard names. It disgusts me. Freedom only comes with good law enforcement. Conservatism used to mean support of law enforcement. It still does for me. I count on those guys catching as many of the bad guys as they can. This one is tough to catch...

The probable cause is a victim lying shot in a parking lot and a guy that seems pretty good at getting away without being seen, and an attempt to stop all the cars leaving. I saw them searching a lot of cars that were not white vans, and I am glad for that.

The police are talking to everyone they can who is leaving the area. Hoping the shooter will stand out somehow in an overwhelming sea of people. It is a long shot, but right now, their only shot.