Drivers of White Vans are being treated as criminals

Vanity | Self

[SamAdams76]

The photos above currently on the Drudge site concern me. I followed the link and the article clearly stated that nobody was arrested last night.

Why then, do we have drivers of white vans, innocent civilians, evidently being pulled out vans at gunpoint and treated like dangerous criminals? One photo shows a man on the ground, evidently in handcuffs, with police officers standing over him as though they have just captured Whitey Bulger. When I first saw the photo, I figured the man was obviously a wanted criminal that police just so happened to come across during their search. But since there were no arrests last night, this man was obviously released and was no criminal after all.

The other photo shows a man by another white van with his hands in the air and a police officer has a gun drawn on him. Again, this was evidently just another innocent civilian who had the misfortune to be driving a white van on I-95 last night.

Now I understand the need for these roadblocks and for the police to be very thorough in their search for the sniper(s). But I cannot see the point of innocent people dragged out of their vehicles at gunpoint with no pretext other than the fact that they happen to be driving a white van.

Now maybe somebody here has an explanation why these two individuals were treated like criminals. Maybe they tried to evade the police or maybe they were driving stolen vans. But again, there were no arrests made last night. So what is the deal with our citizens being treated like Jesse James just for driving a white van?

[FormerLurker]

worry about the "civil rights violations" after the perp is caught!

Go rent a white van in the DC area and drive around for awhile. Get dragged out of your vehicle, get thrown face down into the pavement and handcuffed.

THEN come back and tell us all how you aren't worried about your "civil rights".

[GirlShortstop]

said suspect is totally innocent of any crime    = "Person of Interest"?

[Dr.Deth]

worry about the "civil rights violations" after the perp is caught!

Which perp? Goldstein?

[GirlShortstop]

I don't "do" hypotheticals.   Got it... thanks.

[FITZ]

Yes --the girlfriend, or co-worker, or family member turning in the sniper works if it's an American psychopath kind of killer which is still possible but I think becoming less likely. If it's an organized group with Al Queda or other ties, there are many who know but they won't tell.

[Velveeta]

Please try to engage your brain next time.

I'm trying to engage yours! You stated that you disagree with the tactics used by LE. I would really like to know what tactics you would deem acceptable

[HairOfTheDog]

Thousands of americans were killed last year in murders yet less then 15 people die and all of a sudden some of you morons want to turn this country into nazi germany.

You do know why this is different than other murders in the country don't you?

We can't defend ourselves against this. That is why.

Most murders happen between people who hate each other. I can protect myself from people that I KNOW are out to get me. I can't protect myself from someone who doesn't know me at all.

We can avoid being victims of crime, usually, by staying in good areas, being around good people, and avoiding risky situations. This crime breaks all those rules. It can hit anybody. Anybody at all. That is why it is different.

[FITZ]

The other thing about profiling is that a Middle Eastern man driving a van could in just minutes become a blond woman driving a red sports car with the use of waiting vehicles, wigs, change of clothes.

[Oztrich Boy]

Perhaps they should taser everyone they stop, can't take chances right?

Absurd. yes, but so is handcuffing someone you have no reason to arrest.

[ladyinred]

The fact that white vans, trucks, etc. are seen at the scenes of the shootings is the reason for them stopping them, as I am sure you are aware.

[FITZ]

This crime breaks all those rules.

Which makes it look more like terrorism.

[SamAdams76]

Well handing out Tootsie Rolls is certainly not what I had in mind and when you post absurdities such as that, it tells me that you are not here to argue the subject intelligently.

[McGavin999]

I drive a white van Sam, and if the police asked me to get out of my van and allow them to inspect inside, I would. They obviously have a reason to ask, it's not like they just decided they would pull over various people and look inside for kicks.

These drivers were probably refusing. If that's what it takes to get this killer, then that's what it takes. I like my friends and family too much to want to screw around nit picking issues.

I keep hearing people scream about the Constitution. Well, how about the part where we citizens have some responsibility for protecting ourselves and each other? I don't very much like these people who are running around screaming about their rights when their fellow citizens are getting picked off like sitting ducks. If we can't depend on each other during a crunch then the Constitution won't matter much anyway. It was written for a moral people who felt a sense of responsibility toward their community. Not a bunch of selfish A@@holes who can only think about themselves.

I keep hearing people quote "if you care more about security then liberty, then you deserve neither". That's twisting words to suit a message. As far as I'm concerned, those who lack the commonsense to recognize the seriousness of the situation and cooperate are from the bottom of the gene pool and deserve what they get.

[Velveeta]

Maybe the guy in handcuffs gave LE a hard time?

[Scott from the Left Coast]

One reason for the strong reaction in this situation has been hypothesized on FR -- essentially, that the perps may be prepared with significant explosives packed into the van in preparation for being caught (particularly in heavy traffic).

If these are terrorists and if this is the case, then the "suicide" aspect of their denouement could be quite spectacular and deadly to many in the vicinity of the point of apprehension.

I suspect the police are aware of this and are taking the necessary steps to minimize the chances of that outcome.

While the howls of derision on this site over the more abstract and cerebral issues related to "rights" are forceful and seemingly plentiful enough -- the noise from the general populace second-guessing an apprehension gone very bad, in the sense of a large number of deaths and injuries caused by the desperate perps at the moment they sense "the end", would be thunderous and overwhelming. Heads (hopefully, not literally) would roll throughout law enforcement and government over that outcome.

And if this is terrorism on our soil, then there is a state of war in this place. The first such extended circumstance of this magnitude since the Civil War. To say the least, we are not used to war on our soil. Many fine (and less-fine) points of civil liberties and protections succumb to practicality in a state of war. What we are seeing is the government's actions ratcheting up to a war-time footing, made all the more complicated because the modern face of war is asymmetrical, and unlike the west, our enemies aren't really concerned with western sensibilities -- such as announcing yourself before and after your attack.

[FormerLurker]

If I owned a white van, I would cooperate, be grateful for their diligence and wish them luck.

I guess you wouldn't mind eating a bit of dirt with a boot in the back of your neck while you're held at gunpoint with handcuffs on...

[philetus]

The guy lying handcuffed on the ground could have a sniper rifle under the tshirt he is wearing.(sarcasm)

If this policy of telling drivers of white vans to get on the ground and handcuffing them is necessary then any traffic stop for any reason, anywhere could pose the same danger to the cops and should be dealt eith in the same manner.

[per loin]

So your plan is sit back and wait for somebody to turn him/her/them in?

You create a useless dichotomy, a childish either/or. The police, while continuing their investigation, have a responsibility to the citizens to keep them informed with relevant and accurate info. What possible excuse is there for Moose playing his silly game of not revealing to the public that the casing found in the box van was not a 223? Or for not revealing what is known of the specifics of the sites that the shooter has chosen to shoot from? Or what the handwriting on the tarot card looked like?

[HairOfTheDog]

My completely amatuer opinion is that this is not Al Queda or their ilk. So far this guy has gone through about $5 in ammunition. A minimum wage employee could fund a bigger operation than this, that travels more freely. Imagine the terror of this were not a beltway event, but a guy traveling across the country, no telling what state he might turn up in next. It'd be easier... no task forces, no roadblocks, no little spy planes. This guy has a reason to stay near the beltway... Something as mundane as a job or a spouse. A "real" terrorist wouldn't have that.

[southern rock]

How do the police know the drivers are innocent? How do they know that the driver isn't the sniper?

They require evidence that he IS, NOT evidence that he ISN'T!!!