Skip to comments.
Liking yourself is good - right?
Importance of self-esteem an idea whose time has past
National Post ^
| October 15, 2002
| Robert Fulford
Posted on 10/17/2002 5:18:29 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
click here to read article
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40, 41-60, 61-78 next last
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Gang members strut self-esteem while young chess players wonder if they fit in...
21
posted on
10/17/2002 8:26:20 PM PDT
by
GOPJ
To: sinkspur
"Father,I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me as one of your hired servants."
This statement was not designed to enhance self esteem, but it was the most powerful and true statement the son could have said about himself.
Loving thy neighbor is just like that sometimes.
22
posted on
10/17/2002 8:49:51 PM PDT
by
McB.
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
[ "Connoisseurs of human foolishness" ]
I know I always have been.....
But this guy is'nt a George Carlin more of an AL Gore.
23
posted on
10/17/2002 8:54:11 PM PDT
by
hosepipe
To: sinkspur
I believe it's important to break apart two very different aspects when we talk about self-esteem. The first is being self-focused. The second is whether we feel good or bad about who we are. If the first is not an issue, than the second won't matter. The Bible does talk about forgetting oneself, not about loving oneself. "Those who love their life will lose it, those who lose their lives for my (Jesus') sake will find it."
Bill Clinton is exhibit A of the first generation to grow up with self-esteem crap, the boomers. I am from the next generation, and we have seen first hand how self-absorbed people become when they buy into this pop psychology.
24
posted on
10/17/2002 8:56:41 PM PDT
by
mongrel
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
It seems to be a Skinner type of approach to the problem of low "self-esteem", a form of "putting the cart before the horse." That sort of approach was discredited in my Psychology 101 text from the 1970's.
As a side note, I've often thought the similarity in pronunciation between "esteem" and "steam" was psycho-lingistically unfortunate.
To: sinkspur
Sink, you have it exactly right. Most of those that do not agree with you here are confusing the false self esteem of narcissistic personality disorder with true self esteem (as you have properly described.) The author of the article mentions Nathaniel Branden, but goes on to prove that he hasn't understood his books. Is anyone reading this thread familiar with Branden's description of self esteem?
And is anyone knowledgable about narcissistic personality disorder? It is true that the term has been hijacked by politicians and "educators" to further their collectivist agendas, but the psychology of low self esteem is only recently being understood. I would recommend a book by Alice Miller entitled "Prisoners of Childhood: The Drama of the Gifted Child and the Search for the True Self."
To: sinkspur
I agree.
27
posted on
10/17/2002 9:14:17 PM PDT
by
weikel
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Liberals are continually confusing "cause" and "effect".
Self-esteem arises from being consistent with our own internal value system. It is the effect, not the cause.
The societal benefit comes both from people being consistent with their value systems and from having a value system which promotes health. Falsely encouraging undeserved feelings of self-esteem by our children prevents them from being able to form a healthy value system.
To: Misterioso
I remember Narcissus. He committed suicide. The Greeks had the Apollonian advice: know yourself. It meant, know your limitations. Knowledge of the self could only make sense in the context of knowledge of another. OTH, if you wanted esteem to mean confidence, you had to take up the heroic characters of Ajax, or Oedipus. Their confidence was a spectacle.
29
posted on
10/17/2002 9:16:13 PM PDT
by
cornelis
To: McB.
Interesting.
30
posted on
10/17/2002 9:17:42 PM PDT
by
cornelis
To: sinkspur
because he knows he can Ghost of Oedipus.
31
posted on
10/17/2002 9:19:19 PM PDT
by
cornelis
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Liking yourself is good - right? Importance of self-esteem an idea whose time has past
Apparently, so is the importance of spelling.
32
posted on
10/17/2002 9:19:38 PM PDT
by
aruanan
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
I agree. I wonder if sinkspur was just lashing out at the idea that this has to be *news* to some people!
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Instead of calling it "genuine self-esteem", lets bury S-E forever and just call it self-respect.
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Most people I've met who have a lot of "self esteem" need a tall glass of shut the f*ck up.
35
posted on
10/17/2002 9:26:00 PM PDT
by
Hemlock
To: cornelis
Ghost of Oedipus. Are you a freshman English major?
Oedipus was obsessed, and you're obsessed with Oedipus.
36
posted on
10/17/2002 9:27:33 PM PDT
by
sinkspur
To: sinkspur
These people are, by definition, liars and self-haters But I think what noticing here and talking around is the facade of self esteem vs. the true person underneath... While you are talking about the true person underneath, who lives in self-loathing and compensates with an outward self esteem, liberals who taught this "self esteem" crap tried to teach just the facade, thinking it would give rise to *real* self-esteem. You cannot 'teach' true self esteem (I think it is better termed 'healthy self image') except by a long term relationship with someone who has healthy self-image. To try and teach it in school is ridiculous. This is a flower that grows in the soil, water, and fertilizer of virtue and character and morality, and *NOT* *EVER* without those things. You *can* teach some examples of character and morality (e.g. the Book of Virtues). But to teach "self esteem" to someone who doesn't have the proper growth medium of virtue, is an illusion, much like a plastic plant in an empty pot.
To: sinkspur
invidiam fortunam odit
38
posted on
10/17/2002 9:32:49 PM PDT
by
cornelis
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Self Esteem as a concept was blown away in a recent article the New York Times, of all places. This article (lead 2 paragraphs below) actually said that high self esteem was more likely to be found in true sociopaths, bigots, bullies, etc. than in the effective, well adjusted member of society.
N.Y. Times Science section Oct. 1, 2002 ---
Deflating Self-Esteem's Role in Society's Ills
By ERICA GOODE (NYT) Late Edition - Final, Section F, Page 1, Column 1
" - Low self-esteem is to blame for a host of social ills, from poor academic performance and marital discord to violent crime and drug abuse.
Or so goes the gospel, as written over the last several decades by social scientists, self-help book authors and the California Task Force to Promote Self-Esteem and Personal and Social Responsibility, a panel created in 1986 by the California Legislature to conduct a three-year study of the topic. "
Goes on to de-bunk the whole idea of self esteem as a developmental concept.
To: Ragtime Cowgirl
I've always thought "low self-esteem" is in reality shyness. I have been a very shy person since I was a baby. I think it is simply a personality trait. However, I think the real danger comes from people who have TOO MUCH self-esteem. In other words, they don't give a damn how other people feel or think because they think that they are the only one who matters. So they simply do what makes them feel good no matter who gets hurt.
40
posted on
10/17/2002 9:41:21 PM PDT
by
DBtoo
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40, 41-60, 61-78 next last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson