Posted on 10/17/2002 2:06:03 PM PDT by Vigilant1
Over at TheFiringLine.com, there are many reports from credible long-time posters that the feds are intimidating Maryland gun owners into 'voluntarily' turning over their guns for 'ballistic testing'. Please check out the following discussion threads:
5000 rifles turned-in, in Maryland?
A Special Note To Maryland Gun Owners
This is a realization of the worst fears of gunowners. Feds showing up at your door, demanding you turn over your guns. Threats and intimidation. Absolute proof that the fedgov keeps lists of who owns what guns. This is our Orwellian nightmare come true. If you turn over your guns to the feds, good luck getting them back! Perhaps Maryland is just a test case for federal gun confiscation techniques? We'll see....
This evening about 8pm I got a call from a man who claimed to be an FBI agent surveying local gun owners (yeah right). Now this guy called me and started asking questions (I didn't answer BTW) about my lifestyle, what I've done this past week and about my guns. As some of you may know you should NEVER give out any kind of personal info to someone who calls you (too many scam artists out there). Also, I've never done anything wrong so why would the FBI call me? I assume it is someone trolling around until he finds someone willing to devulge info that will let him know who has guns worth stealing. I tell him this is who I think he is, so no I won't tell him about my guns (actually, I tell him I won't tell him IF I have guns, it is none of his business), my daily habits, my travels, etc. I tell him, that even if he is FBI I've done nothing illegal and so it is none of his buisness then either.
Then it gets really interesting. I dial " *69" to find the number he called from and then call the local FBI office to let them know that someone seems to be fraudulently identifing himself as FBI to get sensitive info about who owns guns (and their daily habits). I tell him the kinds of questions the guy asked (very aggressive- like he was trying to intimidate me) and the nice man at the local office told me it couldn't have been the FBI because, first they don't call people like that, and second they wouldn't use such tactics. I give him the number from *69- it is their Montgomery County MD task force ! I tell the guy that I may call back to apologize for my tone then, but I still won't tell him what guns I own or what I did this past week (it is still none of their business) to which he responds "I wouldn't either".
I call the office (though I don't have the agent's name) to find out who called me so I can apologize for my tone. The guy on the phone tells me that there are so many people there that there is no way he can figure out who it was without a name. I tell him the entire situation and he says "oh, wait, I think I know exactly who you talked to" "I'll have him call you back". A couple minutes later the phone rings and its the original guy (pissed as hell at me BTW).
I apologize for my previous tone, tell him that since I've never done anything wrong I couldn't imagine why the FBI would be calling me and reminded him that I had thought that it must have been someone trying to find out who owns what in the area to target homes. He tells me "Its a damn good thing you called. I had dispatched about a dozen local police and two ATF agents to your home."
I ask him how I came to his attention and why he is taking me so seriously (12 police and 2 ATF!!!). He tells me that "you've been buying an awful lot of guns lately haven't you" (btw, I have a fair #, but not like many here). I say that I have some guns but they are all legal so I still don't see the problem. I ask if he actually has a list of my guns (he does), how he got the list (won't tell me). I ask why he called (again). He won't tell me exactly but he then asks what I have been doing the past week. Now I'm getting REALLY mad (but I try to stay calm because I don't really want to go to jail). It becomes pretty clear in our conversatation that he somehow thinks I'm involved in the DC/MD/VA shootings . I then ask that if he has a list of my guns shouldn't he be able to tell that I don't own a .223, you know the round that the media has reported is the one being used. He tells me that many of my forms sent in by my FFLs were incomplete and didn't list the caliber (WHAT- who was the incompetent who sent the gov't an incomplete form and why is this the first I've heard about it, and I thought they weren't supposed to be used as registration/tracking/etc). Now he is clearly getting mad (and hinting that he won't call off the team he has coming for me). He DEMANDS to know what I've been up to the past week. I tell him that I've been home sometimes, at work sometimes, in Yeshiva sometimes and shopping sometimes (I know I shouldn't have said anything, but I'm tired, annoyed, a bit nervous, etc so I wasn't thinking straight). He then gets even angrier and threatens me with jail if I don't give him the answers he wants. I say it would help if he was more specific then. He asks where I was Fri morning (the time of the last shooting). I tell him I was at home. Now he's even madder (odd, I've just given him a specific answer like he wanted- once he gave a specific question). He wants to know if anyone can verify this (luckily my dad was home at the time- yes I currently live w/ my parents). He then ORDERS me to put my dad on the phone (luckily he was here) and tells me that if he doesn't verify my story exactly I should "be prepared to take a trip at around 11PM." My dad answers all his questions (incl. his birthday and why he was at home and not at work), I get the impression he was very hostile w/ my dad (he was shaking) and he kept telling my dad I have lots of guns (some of you may remember that my parents, esp. my dad, are strongly anti). Then they hung up.
To set the record straight: -I do have more guns than average but I don't really think it is an excessive amount (13, though I have sold a few) -I was no where near any of the shootings when they happened (though I live nearby enough that I have been in some of the areas since- no choice, my Yeshiva is nearby and so is my favorite Kosher supermarket) -There was a little more to the conversation, I only listed the major parts. When he did get really hostile I probably got a bit more punchy than I should have. I had the nerve to point out that all of my guns were perfectly legal, I didn't have the caliber the murderer is using, I stressed that I did nothing wrong, etc. This only made him angrier. I then pointed out (at the "YOU OWN GUNS" badgering) that yes, they are protected under the Constitution too. -No, I did not wait for a lawyer, I know I should have. However, I pointed out some of the reasons above. Also, I didn't really feel like being taken to jail for G-d knows how many hours (I have to be somewhere at 7:30am) to get it sorted out. I figured that since he already had a list of my guns, and since I didn't do anything wrong (heck, I wasn't even in the area of ANY of the shootings when they happened) and I could prove that I was someplace else for two of them (I had witnesses) it couldn't hurt to tell they guy I had been at home.
What I am doing: -I am now a little paranoid. I guess I've decided against not posting here (though I doubt if I'll post except on this thread).
-I will be keeping a log of my activities, time, and the people who I'm with until the shooter is captured in case I should get called again. That way I can say with certainty who I was with and put them in contact with him/her (I'm pretty sure I was with people at the time of some of the shootings I didn't have witnesses for, I just don't remember for sure who I was with or what I was doing- try to remember all the details of the last week, especially under stress).
-I will try my best to never be alone until the shooter is captured so that I will have witnesses to where I was and what I was doing.
I must say this situation is really scary. First, I find it scary that my only reason to be suspect is that I own guns (what some faceless person determines to be an "excessive" number of them). Second, the threats to me, someone who's done nothing, the bullying (I was STRONGLY advised against a lawyer, I was threatened with jail, a forced entry, etc). Last, the "be prepared to take a trip" part, especially for a Jew (remember the Nazis), is reminiscent of certain totalitarian regimes.
Do the Libs actually believe people are that dumb? Or are they really that dumb. I cannot believe this crap. It amazes me at the stupidity of the sheep.
"Sorry, but I can't. I have to take it with me while I go out hunting down some bastard who's been shooting people all over the DC area. Haven't you heard?"
BTW, anyone who allows the ATF to "test" their gun is a damned fool -- there's nothing that would prevent them from framing you for the crimes.
Incidentally, apparently the NICS is defacto registration (what a surprise). The agent that called me seemed to know exactly what I bought going back a couple years (and MD doesn't officially have registration either).
The Brady Act officially prohibits any government agency from maintaining a registration list. My reading of it does not preclude the government from passing data to a NON-governmental group (like handgun control inc) and letting THEM maintain a database. Something like the stink in California a few years back over cops there giving data to ADL so ADL could maintain files on certain groups for the cops, where the cops were not allowed to.
Indeed. Take the bastards to court if they darken your doorway and show them that discovery indeed is hell.
They may even be forced to arrest each other at a future date....
Yes, but "we're at war" don'tcha know? Too many Freepers eat this kind of civil rights abuse up when it's against 'the wicked'.
If the BATF makes this offer to me, I would take it.
My counter-offer would be that they lend me a fully-automatic M-16A2 rifle for the same time period that they borrow my rifle. Sounds fair to me.
Of course, they could always buy my rifle from me. I would say $10,000 would be a fair price.
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