MSNBC says AK-74....

To: fooman; All; Revolting cat!; dead

Fox posted this info in a story hours ago. The headline on their webpage gives NO indication that a witness saw someone possibley "middle-eastern".

I re-posted the story with an amended headline to highlight the info. I got flamed, and then moderator changed my healine. Link went dead.

Here's the link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/769692/posts

My Headline was:

Sniper Witness Identifies two-men, Hispanic, Middle-Eastern.

41 posted on 10/15/2002 4:55:57 PM PDT by Iron Eagle

One of the witnesses last night was a lady who saw the shooter step out of his Astro, raise the gun, aim, fire, calmly get back into his Astro and drive away. He's been practicing for some time.

42 posted on 10/15/2002 4:56:16 PM PDT by spunkets

It's just my opinion, but I don't think that anyone who's got a fascination with the 'Sniper Culture' would choose an AK-74 for their rifle.

But an arab terrorist (who are not known for their military minds) might. They might want to stick with something they are familar with.

43 posted on 10/15/2002 4:56:57 PM PDT by FF578

Curiouser and curiouser.

44 posted on 10/15/2002 4:57:20 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5

Good point. Need to know more about the witness. Fox talking about swarthy dude now!

45 posted on 10/15/2002 4:58:01 PM PDT by fooman

That's just what I'm thinking.

46 posted on 10/15/2002 4:58:50 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid

IT doesn't explain the ATF showing a bunch of AR-15's and HK .223's about a week ago saying "These could be the types of gun the sniper is using."

Call it 'a flush' by the authorities by which this nervy sniper would pushed to provide proof positive of the caliber/weapon he was using " 'cause the BATF boys were just too thick to get it the first time "...

47 posted on 10/15/2002 5:00:31 PM PDT by _Jim

Fox talking about ME dark skinned dudes now.

48 posted on 10/15/2002 5:00:46 PM PDT by fooman

But how good is it as a sniping weapon?

Not very. Tolerances on the AK are much sloppier than on, say, the M-16.

But "not very" means it'd be good out to 300 meters, or so - sufficient for the current incidents.

49 posted on 10/15/2002 5:01:06 PM PDT by jdege

If we get a good sketch out there that can focus the search out there that would be awsome.

I have family in the DC area and dont want to see them die because of PC

50 posted on 10/15/2002 5:03:52 PM PDT by fooman

An AK-74 is actually pretty accurate. The effective range of an old AK-47 was about 300 meters. The AK-74's effective range is 500 Meters. The M16's max effective range is 550 meters for point targets and 800 meters for area targets.

51 posted on 10/15/2002 5:06:53 PM PDT by FF578

Right. They were also working with less info at the time.

This HD shooting the one where have gotten the best description of the guy.

Now we may know why the military was brought in..

If these are ME para military types, then we are war here.

And we were warned by doctor Al - Zuhubub or whatever his name was on arab tv

52 posted on 10/15/2002 5:07:41 PM PDT by fooman

Kalashnikov AKS-74 - 5.45x39mm Soviet - Russia/CIS - 650 RPM - In the mid '60s, the Soviet Union began efforts to develop a small-bore assault rifle cartridge along the lines of the US 5.56x45mm. Starting with the .220 Russian target cartridge, the diameter of the case was reduced to nearly the same diameter as the 5.56x45mm. The projectile was designed with an air pocket between the front of the core and the nose of the jacket, creating a relatively long bullet for its weight. This design would have a high ballistic coefficient, giving a relatively flat trajectory, but it also meant that the bullet would destabilize quickly upon striking flesh, earlier than even the then US issue M193 projectile. However, the 5.45x39mm projectile typically remains intact in flesh, and thus does not exhibit the severe wounds caused by the fragmentation of 5.56x45mm projectiles. It is this tumbling in flesh that made me think that an AK74 was the weapon when that boy was shot in the chest and the round exited his abdomen.

Essentially an AKM rechambered for the new caliber, the AK74 also introduced a few new features. The large muzzle brake is reportedly quite effective in reducing dispersion during automatic fire; however, it also serves to enhance flash and blast. Even the Soviet military medical establishment became worried as to the possibility of hearing damage during range qualification. Another distinct change was the use of metal reinforced fiberglass magazines; early examples are distinctive due to their red color. For additional visual reference, AK74 magazines are slightly shorter and less curved than the earlier AK47/AKM magazine. On weapons equipped with wood laminate furniture, the AK74 can be recognized by the addition of a horizontal finger groove on each side of the buttstock and forearm. Internally, the bolt has been lightened and altered for the smaller case rim of the 5.45x39mm cartridge. On the other hand, the extractor was strengthened in response to complaints of the occasional extractor breakage in the AKM.

Tactics: A decent weapon, but there are much better choices. Notch and post iron sights.

53 posted on 10/15/2002 5:08:42 PM PDT by 11B3

Did you ever see the video footage of Kalishnikov meeting Eugene Stoner? It was funny.

Kalishnikov starting talking about the 5.45mm and said something along the lines of "I blame you for this, all was fine untill you came along..." to Stoner's smiling face.

54 posted on 10/15/2002 5:10:27 PM PDT by El Sordo

It is this tumbling in flesh that made me think that an AK74 was the weapon when that boy was shot in the chest and the round exited his abdomen.

VERY interesting observation.

55 posted on 10/15/2002 5:11:26 PM PDT by fooman

" too thick to get it the first time"

They had the results from tossing any of the Cu shreds from the bullets into the SEM and measuring the lands and grooves. They held back 'till now, 'cause they didn't want the killers to know. They should have alerted sooner if they were honest, but they're not. Instead of keeping quite, they came out with guns Americans use and held them up saying, "this! this! is what's easily available to anyone with a couple of bucks". They knew, but they still milked it for all the gun control propaganda it's worth. Sick bastards!

56 posted on 10/15/2002 5:11:59 PM PDT by spunkets

Yes, Kalishnikov was also very upset that the Soviet Army went with the 5.45 x 39MM he thought the old 7.62 MM was best and wanted to work on redesigning that round instead.

57 posted on 10/15/2002 5:12:09 PM PDT by FF578

Thanks for this incredible information.

58 posted on 10/15/2002 5:12:33 PM PDT by Bahbah

Chief Moose is a PC, touchy-feely-hugs-make-people-nicer type of person. Sure don't want to hurt anyones little feelings by telling the truth now, do we? Instead of arresting them, Moose will give them a copy of "I'm okay, you're okay".

59 posted on 10/15/2002 5:13:42 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican

It could well be that the police called the projectile a .223 because that's what they were familiar with and they were dealing only with fragments, not an intact bullet.

Given that all the bullet "fragments" were recovered -

- what are the chances that they could state with confidence upon weighing the bullet fragments what the caliber was?

Also note that they have now had x number (what it it now - 11 different shots?) of opportunities to gather and weigh the bullet fragments from each of these shots - and it would be the 'graphing' (the plotting) of this fragment weight data that would be centroid on some weight (mass) value that would be indicative of the caliber of the rounds fired ...

60 posted on 10/15/2002 5:14:05 PM PDT by _Jim

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