'Most muggers are black'

The Evening Standard (London) ^ | 11 October 2002 | Tim Rider

[UKCajun]

The deputy head of the Metropolitan Police has launched an attack on political correctness, saying that society cannot ignore the evidence that most muggers are black.

...Mr Blair pointed to the American example set by the Reverend Jesse Jackson, the former US presidential candidate. "We need a Jesse Jackson," he said.

[Pagey]

saying that society cannot ignore the evidence that most muggers are black...He also drew attention to the people-smuggling problem within the Chinese community, and he said that youth gangs are rampant within Asian communities.

At least he's identifying who's committing the majority of crimes.(God knows he'd get slammed if he worked here in the USA and uttered such a fact.)

[Tired of Taxes]

take a look at the NFL, the NBA they are 70 to 90% black in a country that is 12.5% black. It's pretty clear that genetic differences, no matter how socially constructed they may be, are playing a role in who is qualified to be a basketball or a football player.

I'm not saying that there aren't differences between people. "Genetics" may play a part in a person's abilities or disabilities, but there are genetic differences even within one "racial" group. More importantly, genes don't cause a person to decide to play a sport or to practice that sport until he can play professionally, nor do genes cause someone to choose to commit a crime (or to make any choice, for that matter).

Furthermore, there's the "one drop" rule still in effect. As I stated earlier, just one drop of "black blood" renders you "black". So, genetically, a man could trace his heritage directly to Europe, but the U.S. gov't and the NAACP (and probably the Bureau of Justice, basketball coaches, and the man himself) will still consider him as "black".

[Blood of Tyrants]

It is important to note that among serious scholars politically correct scholars the IQ gap has never been an issue.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Sorry, you are right. I remember the black on white vs white on black thing now.

[republicman]

ALl true, but as I said if a given group of people, more or less gentically similar, have a tendency to have a drastically greater ability in sports, couldn't this same group also have other traits less positive. The answer is of course.

However on the other hand unlike a poster said, people are not like dogs, we live in cultural units, we have income differences, we live in sparse areas or we live in cities, etc etc. Some of which may or may not be part of the bigger picture.


I certainly don't know the answers. But I can say this much

that not allowing the question to be posed will never make it magically disappear.

Its something that should be discussed, thoughtfully and carefully, but nonetheless, should be discussed.

[SauronOfMordor]

Don't be stupid. Poverty isn't THE cause of crime, but only a fool would say it isn't one of several contributing factors. I don't pretend that culture isn't at least as signficiant. But if you're rich, you're not going to mug a pedestrian for $20.

There are Oriental immigrant communities that are just as poor as the black communities. The important thing is that their reponse to lack of money is to make sure that their kids get educated in useful skills.

I'm thinking that the problem is not that bad attitudes stem from poverty, but poverty stemming from bad attitudes. A culture where members are looked down on for trying to learn, and where working at an entry level job is ridiculed, is going to stay poor

[Tired of Taxes]

Though I might disagree with you on certain points, I do agree that the issue should be discussed. And openly, too.

However, I also think conservatives shoot themselves in the foot on the issue of "race". Many conservatives say the word "American" shouldn't be hyphenated and call leftists "racist" because they categorize people into specially-protected racial groups. They triumph individualism and personal accountability. But, then they themselves want to classify people by race for crime and IQ. (That was not directed at you personally, just venting about conservativism in general).

[Tired of Taxes]

There are Oriental immigrant communities that are just as poor as the black communities. The important thing is that their reponse to lack of money is to make sure that their kids get educated in useful skills.

There is also crime in some Asian communities with much underground criminal activity. The big news around here several years ago was the story of how Asian "mafia-type" groups had been preying on newly-arrived immigrants from their country. They were breaking into their homes, stealing from them, raping them, and so on. The immigrants themselves are afraid to go to the police. Not all crime makes the news or the statistics, and the stereotype of all Asians with their noses in the books and their heads on straight is not entirely accurate.

[republicman]

It seems you are saying several things here I'll try and take them one at a time--

--Many conservatives say the word "American" shouldn't be hyphenated---

Perhaps a misnomer of sorts. My guess is more than a punctuation problem, Its really about having allegiences. I think most conservatives don't like it when people prioritize allegiences to their race, ethnicity, etc before that of being Americans.

--and call leftists "racist" because they categorize people into specially-protected racial groups.---

IMO its not necessarily racist to categorize people into racial groups. But what is generally objected to is the government bestowing a priveledged status to some groups and not others.

--They triumph individualism and personal accountability.--

I expect, but I don't see how that contradicts the above

--But, then they themselves want to classify people by race for crime and IQ.--

I think we have to live in the real world. Even though are slightly fuzzy. The concepts of IQ, race, exist. And we should accept that and deal with it.

WHile on the other hand be careful not to forget that other things exist as well. In general:

Blacks live in urban areas more often than whites (crime is more prevalent in urban areas). Blacks are more likely to be in lower socioeconomic classes (crime is more prevalent in lower socioeconomic classes). Blacks also have a younger population (crime is most prevalent in males aged 18 to 25) etc.

Any or all of which may be part of the larger picture.

[republicman]

Another aspect to the Asian story that you may find interesting

Asians from China, Japan do very well

However Laotians do very poorly

And of course there is very little genetic difference between the groups--IMO A strong argument for the cultural side.

[Enterprise]

Two things would happen. First - there would be fewer muggings. Second - there would more thug funerals because there are some "victims" who would wait until the thug made a move and then BANG BANG BANG - three shots and he's OUT!

[aristeides]

Why do you wonder about the purpose of posting thisinformation? If it's true, shouldn't that be enough? I take it you are one of those who want truths that do not fit your preferences to just be hidden.

[aristeides]

And I also wouldn't doubt that most serial killers are white.

That's probably true of serial killers. But they kill such a small proportion of the total number of murder victims, that it is a relatively insignificant fact.

I dare say whites are a much smaller proportion -- and blacks and Hispanics are a much larger proportion -- of the total of murderers of strangers. That being a much larger number, that's what should matter more.

[aristeides]

Knowledge is a means, not an end.

Thus speaks a propagandist, and censor. He wants to determine in advance whether a fact is worthy of being known by you, and, if he determines that it isn't, he wants to stop you from knowing it.

[aristeides]

Poverty isn't THE cause of crime, but only a fool would say it isn't one of several contributing factors.

Why do you think crime rates were so low in the Great Depression? Why do you think they were so much lower in the 1950's than they are now?

[aristeides]

But their parents are rich, so they don't go around robbing folks for $20. I agree that culture is very important. But so is poverty.

When I grew up in the South Bronx in the 1950's, people were poor. Kids may have committed crimes, but they didn't go around robbing people.

[aristeides]

That cuts both ways. For example, someone who holds this view of blacks affects me personally simply due to my skin color.

Indeed it does cut two ways. It could induce you to act better than other people, just to make a point, and induce other members of your group to do the same. Whether it's true or not, it's not at all obvious that for people to say it will end up doing more harm than good.