Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Orion
Yeah gee whiz, what if workers are so vital to the survival of this nation that we dare not let them strike. Yeah, I'm supposed to be sympathetic that the adversarial relationship THEY created with management has resulted in them feeling screwed. To hell with them, get to freaking work and do the job.

Slowdown, sick outs and all that crap are being pussies. At least leftists are willing to go to jail for their beliefs. Staging fake strikes so you can cripple your employer but not risk violating the law is just being a bunch of cowards. If your position is right you should be willing to go to jail for it. But no, you're only willing to risk the lives of the people you're sworn to protect, that's real nice stuff.

You present EXACTLY why striking is bad. Because whether the union is right or wrong the minute you guys walk off the job the employer HAS TO cave. That's BS. There's no bargaining. Everybody with unionized employees gets two choices:
give the unions everything they want
go under
The fact that unions worship these strong arm tactics shows just how sick they are. All the rhetoric is about "defending the worker" but that's BS, strikes are about telling management who's really boss. Unions have never accomplished one drop of good in this country, everything they take credit for was done by congress.

This isn't statism, it's wanting the free market to be allowed to do what it does best. Everytime you accuse me of being a statist for hating labor monopolies you damage what little point you never had in the first place. Try using fact instead of slurs. Problem of course is that there are NO FACTS that show unions to be good in ANY POSSIBLE WAY. Calling people statist and using the rhetoric of Marx isn't going to win you any friends here, try it at DU that crap flies good there.
162 posted on 10/08/2002 10:47:49 AM PDT by discostu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies ]


To: discostu
Several points...

First, unless you are familiar with the airline industry, your assertion on the relative unionization of a particular company is rather shakey. I am in the industry, and am very familiar with union acitivity in the industry. Southwest is the most unionized airline in the USA. The fact you imply otherwise, based entirely upon wages, demonstrates that you are operating from the standard anti-union template so common at FR.

So, unless we strike, we are pussies? OK, staging a fake strike (whatever that is) is against the law. Striking is entirely legal, so your point was?

Please tell me, whose lives have I sworn to protect? How do I risk them by staying at home? How do I jeopardize my passengers without killing myself? Honestly, do you even think about what you are saying?

Yes, striking is bad for the corporation. Yes, that is quite a bit of leverage the union holds. So, given that reality, and legal entitlement, why not have the corporation replace us? I will tell you why not - United 1985. Ferris tried to break the union - no luck. He ran his airline into the ground, and they are still paying for it. That is the reality. There is plenty of competition, as if we raise the bar too high, our company, and our seniority and our careers are done. With a 30 year career being worth $10M, we do not take that lightly. Starting over at another airline would cost each pilot over $5M. Again, think before you post.

There is no bargaining? The last contract that American Airlines signed with their pilots was negotiated for almost 4 years, and what did the pilots do? A 20 minute strike in the middle of the night. Most of America slept through it. When was the last time AA was on strike? 1959. Yes, that is one strike every 40 years - a real national crisis if I have ever seen one.

You actually believe that the present working conditions of union and non-union workers was achieved by Congress? If so, is that good? You didn't like when I refered to statists, even though I never called you a statist, but with that statement, what conclusions could I possibly draw?

Unions do nothing good? No possible way? Tell me, the biggest news story of the past 13 months have been 4 hijackings and 3000 dead Americans. Your POTUS proposed a massive gov't buerocracy to deal with the problems. My union proposed arming pilots. POTUS, FAA, DOT, ATA, and airline management all opposed the idea. It was the union representing the pilots of American Airlines that first proposed arming pilots. ALPA, the union that represents all other airlines than Southwest, FedEX, and UPS had its leadership come out against arming pilots. That was Duane Worth, the chairman of ALPA reacting to his friends in Washington. Once the APA (AA's union) proposed this, the rank-and-file of the ALPA just about ripped Worth's head off and he changed his mind. It was the APA that lobbied Congress for arming of pilots against the wishes of the FAA, corporations, and the POTUS. That pressure caused Congress to pass the legeslation by better than 2/3 in both houses. GWB, saw the changing wind, moistened his finger and came out in favor of such an idea.

If we were doing what the gov't, corporations, and the early Congress wanted, there would be no defense against another hijacking. The union, and only the union, changed all that.

Guess who wants pilots on duty for 24 continuous hours? That's right the corporations. Guess who wants a hard 16 hour day? - the unions. Guess who has proposed every major safety innovation in the airline industry in the past 50 years? Not management, that is too costly. It was the unions. Believe it or not, the management of each airline works closely with, and in partnership with the unions on most issues that face the airline. Dealing with one voice is easier than 14000 voices. Obviously, the compensation package is adversarial, but many of the structures of the union are welcomed by management. Both AMR and APA want a strong American Airlines. AMR would like to do gut the pilot contract for a temporary gian, and the pilots do not want that.

Keep in mind that strong employees are good for America. I've been in an environment where management was supreme and the worker bees did what they were told or thrown in prison. When your boss tells you to violate the FAA regs, common sense, and endanger yourself and your crew, just so he looks good for his boss, it should not be difficult to see where a subordinate should be able to be protected from such incompetance.

stat'ism, n. Concentration of economic controls and planning in the hands of a highly centralized state government.

stat'ist, n. OF, pert. to, or advocating statism.

I am not the one advocating the gov't take control of the situation and imposing working conditions and pay. The ILWU contract has expired. This is just as much management's fault as if they allowed the contracts for electricity to expire, or allowed their dock licenses to expire. The fact the ILWU is trying to get another contract should not be shocking. If they don't want to pay the ILWU, get other workers. There are 1,000,000 mestizos that would love those jobs. No excuses.
163 posted on 10/08/2002 12:12:47 PM PDT by Orion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies ]

To: discostu
Everybody with unionized employees gets two choices:
give the unions everything they want
go under


With such a track record, how do you explain why union membership is at historic lows? If they have that much power to get workers what they want, I'd think that everyone would want to join one.
166 posted on 10/08/2002 12:32:07 PM PDT by BikerNYC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson