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Professor Rigid on Evolution (must "believe" to get med school rec)
The Lubbock Avalanche Journal ^ | 10/6/02 | Sebastian Kitchen

Posted on 10/06/2002 8:16:21 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana

Professor rigid on evolution </MCC HEAD>

By SEBASTIAN KITCHEN </MCC BYLINE1>

AVALANCHE-JOURNAL </MCC BYLINE2>

On the Net

• Criteria for letters of recommendation: http://www2.tltc.ttu.edu/dini/Personal/ letters.htm

• Michael Dini's Web page:

http://www2.tltc.ttu. edu/dini/

Micah Spradling was OK with learning about evolution in college, but his family drew the line when his belief in the theory became a prerequisite for continuing his education.

Tim Spradling said his son left Texas Tech this semester and enrolled in Lubbock Christian University after en countering the policy of one associate professor in biological sciences.

Professor Michael Dini's Web site states that a student must "truthfully and forthrightly" believe in human evolution to receive a letter of recommendation from him.

"How can someone who does not accept the most important theory in biology expect to properly practice in a field that is so heavily based on biology?" Dini's site reads.

Dini says on the site that it is easy to imagine how physicians who ignore or neglect the "evolutionary origin of humans can make bad clinical decisions."

He declined to speak with The Avalanche-Journal. His response to an e-mail from The A-J said: "This semester, I have 500 students to contend with, and my schedule in no way permits me to participate in such a debate."

A Tech spokeswoman said Chancellor David Smith and other Tech officials also did not want to comment on the story.

At least two Lubbock doctors and a medical ethicist said they have a problem with the criterion, and the ethicist said Dini "could be a real ingrate."

Tim Spradling, who owns The Brace Place, said his son wanted to follow in his footsteps and needed a letter from a biology professor to apply for a program at Southwestern University's medical school.

Spradling is not the only medical professional in Lub bock shocked by Dini's policy. Doctors Patrick Edwards and Gaylon Seay said they learned evolution in college but were never forced to believe it.

"I learned what they taught," Edwards said. "I had to. I wanted to make good grades, but it didn't change my basic beliefs."

Seay said his primary problem is Dini "trying to force someone to pledge allegiance to his way of thinking."

Seay, a Tech graduate who has practiced medicine since 1977, said a large amount of literature exists against the theory.

"He is asking people to compromise their religious be liefs," Seay said. "It is a shame for a professor to use that as a criteria."

Dini's site also states: "So much physical evidence supports" evolution that it can be referred to as fact even if all the details are not known.

"One can deny this evidence only at the risk of calling into question one's understanding of science and of the method of science," Dini states on the Web site.

Edwards said Dini admits in the statement that the details are not all known.

Dini is in a position of authority and "can injure someone's career," and the criteria is the "most prejudice thing I have ever read," Seay said.

"It is appalling," he said.

Both doctors said their beliefs in creationism have never negatively affected their practices, and Seay said he is a more compassionate doctor because of his beliefs.

"I do not believe evolution has anything to do with the ability to make clinical decisions — pro or con," Seay said.

Academic freedom should be extended to students, Edwards said.

"A student may learn about a subject, but that does not mean that everything must be accepted as fact, just because the professor or an incomplete body of evidence says so," Edwards said.

"Skepticism is also a very basic part of scientific study," he said.

The letter of recommendation should not be contingent on Dini's beliefs, Edwards said.

"That would be like Texas Tech telling him he had to be a Christian to teach biology," Edwards said.

Harold Vanderpool, professor in history and philosophy of medicine at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston, said he has a problem with Dini's policy.

"I think this professor could be a real ingrate," Vanderpool said. "I have a problem with a colleague who has enjoyed all the academic freedoms we have, which are extensive, and yet denies that to our students."

Vanderpool, who has served on, advised or chaired committees for the National Institute of Health, the Food and Drug Administration and the Department of Health and Human Services, said the situation would be like a government professor requiring a student to be "sufficiently patriotic" to receive a letter.

"It seems to me that this professor is walking a pretty thin line between the protection of his right to do what he wants to do, his own academic freedom, and a level of discrimination toward a student," he said.

"It is reaching into an area of discrimination. That could be a legal problem. If not, it is a moral problem," Vanderpool said.

Instead of a recommendation resting on character and academic performance, "you've got this ideological litmus test you are using," he said. "To me, that is problematic, if not outright wrong."

William F. May, a medical ethicist who was appointed to President Bush's Council on Bioethics, said he cannot remember establishing a criterion on the question of belief with a student on exams or with letters of recommendation.

"I taught at five institutions and have always felt you should grade papers and offer judgments on the quality of arguments rather than a position on which they arrived."

Professors "enjoy the protection of academic freedom" and Dini "seems to be profoundly ungrateful" for the freedom, Vanderpool said.

He said a teacher cannot be forced to write a letter of recommendation for a student, which he believes is good because the letters are personal and have "to do with the professor's assessment of students' work habits, character, grades, persistence and so on."

A policy such as Dini's needs to be in the written materials and should be stated in front of the class so the student is not surprised by the policy and can drop the class, Vanderpool said.

Dini's site states that an individual who denies the evidence commits malpractice in the method of science because "good scientists would never throw out data that do not conform to their expectations or beliefs."

People throw out information be cause "it seems to contradict his/her cherished beliefs," Dini's site reads. A physician who ignores data cannot remain a physician for long, it states.

Dini's site lists him as an exceptional faculty member at Texas Tech in 1995 and says he was named "Teacher of the Year" in 1998-99 by the Honors College at Texas Tech.

Edwards said he does not see any evidence on Dini's vita that he attended medical school or treated patients.

"Dr. Dini is a nonmedical person trying to impose his ideas on medicine," Edwards said. "There is little in common between teaching biology classes and treating sick people. ... How dare someone who has never treated a sick person purport to impose his feelings about evolution on someone who aspires to treat such people?"

On his Web site, Dini questions how someone who does not believe in the theory of evolution can ask to be recommended into a scientific profession by a professional scientist.

May, who taught at multiple prestigious universities, including Yale, during his 50 years in academia, said he did not want to judge Dini and qualified his statements because he did not know all of the specifics.

He said the doctors may be viewing Dini's policy as a roadblock, but the professor may be warning them in advance of his policy so students are not dismayed later.

"I have never seen it done and am surprised to hear it, but he may find creationist aggressive in the class and does not want to have to cope with that," May said. "He is at least giving people the courtesy of warning them in advance."

The policy seems unusual, May said, but Dini should not be "gang-tackled and punished for his policy."

The criterion may have been viewed as a roadblock for Micah Spradling at Tech, but it opened a door for him at LCU.

Classes at LCU were full, Tim Spradling said, but school officials made room for his son after he showed them Dini's policy.

skitchen@lubbockonline.com 766-8753


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: academia; crevolist; evolution
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To: VadeRetro
So the dog has a chance at least to get buried in silt before the swamp gets drained or the lake water layers "turn over" after the some cold night in the fall. (Drop off the dog in late spring for the maximum burial time.)

Better yet, find yourself a nice meromictic lake...

921 posted on 10/11/2002 9:49:17 AM PDT by general_re
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To: general_re
What is he saying that seems obvious to you?

His last sentence is a summary of his letter:

So, much as I should like to oblige you by jumping to the defence of gradualism, and fleshing out the transitions between the major types of animals and plants, I find myself a bit short of the intellectual justification necessary for the job.
Kitcher's response is quite telling.

Take it. ;-)

922 posted on 10/11/2002 9:58:09 AM PDT by scripter
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To: general_re
That would certainly work, although they don't seem to be very common.
923 posted on 10/11/2002 10:01:16 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Ready2go
Pierre-Paul Grassé, Evolutionist:

No matter how numerous they may be, mutations do not produce any kind of Evolution.

This guy's an evolutionist? What does he think the mechanism is if not mutations?

924 posted on 10/11/2002 10:07:54 AM PDT by lasereye
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To: scripter
His letter, in one sentence, boils down to "Genetics tells me that gradualism is correct, but I can't honestly say that the fossil record reflects it yet" - and from that we derive that Patterson denies evolution altogether? Really?
925 posted on 10/11/2002 10:13:50 AM PDT by general_re
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To: VadeRetro
They're not, but I used to live near Round Lake, so it came to mind upon reading your suggested conditions for fossilization ;)
926 posted on 10/11/2002 10:16:09 AM PDT by general_re
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To: VadeRetro

Placemarker.
927 posted on 10/11/2002 10:18:04 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: general_re
The letter along with Kitcher's response demonstrates some evolutionists will say one thing to the general public and quite another to their peers behind closed doors. The book *Darwin's Enigma* by Sunderland (I have it) demonstrates more of the same.

You can go to the library with the reference numbers I provided earlier and see the verbatim typed transcripts (from tape) for yourself. I used to have copies of the microfiche but have since lost them in a move. Still, for less than $5.00 you can get your own copies. I had to hit a University library to find the docs.

928 posted on 10/11/2002 10:28:18 AM PDT by scripter
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To: scripter
The letter along with Kitcher's response demonstrates some evolutionists will say one thing to the general public and quite another to their peers behind closed doors.

What is it that he said in that letter that he wouldn't say in public? And, you are aware that this letter you posted has absolutely nothing to do with his talk before the AMNH, right?

929 posted on 10/11/2002 10:34:24 AM PDT by general_re
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To: Alamo-Girl
Or to put it another way, people are frequently not-Muslim, not-Buddist etc. but rarely does it satisfy them to be not-Christian. Many actually become anti-Christ.

Oh, the mysteries of the human heart, A-G! What you describe here seems to be a very ancient human problem; for the Greeks, the Romans, and the Jews all had terms for it. Plato called it anoia, which loosely translates as "a flight from reason," or as nosos, a pathological state of consciousness. Aristotle called it nosemos -- same thing. The Jews called a man in the grip of this "disorder" a nabal, which is usually translated as "fool," but the word means far more than that, for it carries the idea of a conscious rejection of what is good. Cicero's aspernatio rationalis captures the idea of the rejection of, or contempt for reason. The Greeks, Romans, and Jews were in agreement that such is a pathological state, a sickness of the psyche: for to them, to reject the divine ground of the reality in which one has his place is just plain nutz.

Looking at our society today, I gather we have a raging epidemic of anoia on our hands! It's everywhere, even here at FR.... IMHO. FWIW.

930 posted on 10/11/2002 10:40:54 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: general_re
What is it that he said in that letter that he wouldn't say in public?

What does Kitcher's response tell you?

I recommend you read *Darwin's Enigma* by Sunderland. The quotes were supposedly out of context yet when I checked they were not, and more of what I found was quite revealing. As another example by Eldredge (I believe), he said "We don't want to confuse the children." The context was not having the necessary evidence to support evolution but we have to teach the kids something. That's the only example I can remember well enough to mention here among the 25-30 revealing questions and answers I printed.

931 posted on 10/11/2002 10:46:33 AM PDT by scripter
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To: scripter
What does Kitcher's response tell you?

"Dr. Patterson, when he wrote that letter in 1979, he wrote that letter in complete ignorance of the political situation in the USA."

That he was unaware of the political controversy over evolution in the United States?

I give up - what did Patterson say in his letter that he wouldn't say publicly?

932 posted on 10/11/2002 10:50:00 AM PDT by general_re
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To: betty boop
Wow! Thank you oh so very much for the absolutely fascinating background!!!

I agree with you (again) - "we have a raging epidemic of anoia on our hands!"

933 posted on 10/11/2002 10:50:59 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: general_re
Are you saying spin does not exist in politics or political controversies?
934 posted on 10/11/2002 10:55:42 AM PDT by scripter
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To: scripter
I'm asking you what he said in this letter, or privately elsewhere, that he wouldn't say about evolution publicly, as you suggest he did. Surely you have something specific in mind, yes?
935 posted on 10/11/2002 10:59:31 AM PDT by general_re
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To: whattajoke
Well sir, it appears to me that the quotations from Ready2Go which you called "lies" are nothing of the kind. Nor were they out of context.

The letter (posted by general re)from Dr. Patterson which discusses the speech retracts not one sentence; he merely expresses regret that there were creationists present. I think its safe to say that Dr. Patterson did not consider himself a "creationist" but then that is not the point.

I think the point is that the Dr. expresses serious concerns about the state of evolutionary science and asks hard questions. Which is as it should be. That's my understanding of what scientists are supposed to do and the good Dr. demonstrates a great deal more intellectual honesty than is often apparent on these threads.

Does this make him a luddite, a moron, an idiot, a liar? Or are the hard questions reserved for those on the inside of academe? Afterall you must keep the peasants in their place if for no other reason than then they'll want the good parking spots.

936 posted on 10/11/2002 11:09:46 AM PDT by Pietro
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To: Pietro
The letter (posted by general re)from Dr. Patterson which discusses the speech retracts not one sentence; he merely expresses regret that there were creationists present.

I think not.

937 posted on 10/11/2002 11:12:09 AM PDT by general_re
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To: general_re
I'm asking you what he said in this letter, or privately elsewhere, that he wouldn't say about evolution publicly, as you suggest he did.

First take this then for an exhaustive book answering your questions I recommend you read the source and perhaps query Kitcher - he seems to see the obvious.

938 posted on 10/11/2002 11:15:41 AM PDT by scripter
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To: scripter
If it's so obvious, it shouldn't be hard for you to explain it, right?
939 posted on 10/11/2002 11:19:24 AM PDT by general_re
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To: Pietro
I absolutely assure you that Colin Patterson wasn't even aware that there were Americans who believed in creationism let alone conniving, deceptive, lame-brained creationists who don't know a rhetorical question when they hear one.
940 posted on 10/11/2002 11:28:04 AM PDT by whattajoke
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