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Professor Rigid on Evolution (must "believe" to get med school rec)
The Lubbock Avalanche Journal ^ | 10/6/02 | Sebastian Kitchen

Posted on 10/06/2002 8:16:21 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana

Professor rigid on evolution </MCC HEAD>

By SEBASTIAN KITCHEN </MCC BYLINE1>

AVALANCHE-JOURNAL </MCC BYLINE2>

On the Net

• Criteria for letters of recommendation: http://www2.tltc.ttu.edu/dini/Personal/ letters.htm

• Michael Dini's Web page:

http://www2.tltc.ttu. edu/dini/

Micah Spradling was OK with learning about evolution in college, but his family drew the line when his belief in the theory became a prerequisite for continuing his education.

Tim Spradling said his son left Texas Tech this semester and enrolled in Lubbock Christian University after en countering the policy of one associate professor in biological sciences.

Professor Michael Dini's Web site states that a student must "truthfully and forthrightly" believe in human evolution to receive a letter of recommendation from him.

"How can someone who does not accept the most important theory in biology expect to properly practice in a field that is so heavily based on biology?" Dini's site reads.

Dini says on the site that it is easy to imagine how physicians who ignore or neglect the "evolutionary origin of humans can make bad clinical decisions."

He declined to speak with The Avalanche-Journal. His response to an e-mail from The A-J said: "This semester, I have 500 students to contend with, and my schedule in no way permits me to participate in such a debate."

A Tech spokeswoman said Chancellor David Smith and other Tech officials also did not want to comment on the story.

At least two Lubbock doctors and a medical ethicist said they have a problem with the criterion, and the ethicist said Dini "could be a real ingrate."

Tim Spradling, who owns The Brace Place, said his son wanted to follow in his footsteps and needed a letter from a biology professor to apply for a program at Southwestern University's medical school.

Spradling is not the only medical professional in Lub bock shocked by Dini's policy. Doctors Patrick Edwards and Gaylon Seay said they learned evolution in college but were never forced to believe it.

"I learned what they taught," Edwards said. "I had to. I wanted to make good grades, but it didn't change my basic beliefs."

Seay said his primary problem is Dini "trying to force someone to pledge allegiance to his way of thinking."

Seay, a Tech graduate who has practiced medicine since 1977, said a large amount of literature exists against the theory.

"He is asking people to compromise their religious be liefs," Seay said. "It is a shame for a professor to use that as a criteria."

Dini's site also states: "So much physical evidence supports" evolution that it can be referred to as fact even if all the details are not known.

"One can deny this evidence only at the risk of calling into question one's understanding of science and of the method of science," Dini states on the Web site.

Edwards said Dini admits in the statement that the details are not all known.

Dini is in a position of authority and "can injure someone's career," and the criteria is the "most prejudice thing I have ever read," Seay said.

"It is appalling," he said.

Both doctors said their beliefs in creationism have never negatively affected their practices, and Seay said he is a more compassionate doctor because of his beliefs.

"I do not believe evolution has anything to do with the ability to make clinical decisions — pro or con," Seay said.

Academic freedom should be extended to students, Edwards said.

"A student may learn about a subject, but that does not mean that everything must be accepted as fact, just because the professor or an incomplete body of evidence says so," Edwards said.

"Skepticism is also a very basic part of scientific study," he said.

The letter of recommendation should not be contingent on Dini's beliefs, Edwards said.

"That would be like Texas Tech telling him he had to be a Christian to teach biology," Edwards said.

Harold Vanderpool, professor in history and philosophy of medicine at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston, said he has a problem with Dini's policy.

"I think this professor could be a real ingrate," Vanderpool said. "I have a problem with a colleague who has enjoyed all the academic freedoms we have, which are extensive, and yet denies that to our students."

Vanderpool, who has served on, advised or chaired committees for the National Institute of Health, the Food and Drug Administration and the Department of Health and Human Services, said the situation would be like a government professor requiring a student to be "sufficiently patriotic" to receive a letter.

"It seems to me that this professor is walking a pretty thin line between the protection of his right to do what he wants to do, his own academic freedom, and a level of discrimination toward a student," he said.

"It is reaching into an area of discrimination. That could be a legal problem. If not, it is a moral problem," Vanderpool said.

Instead of a recommendation resting on character and academic performance, "you've got this ideological litmus test you are using," he said. "To me, that is problematic, if not outright wrong."

William F. May, a medical ethicist who was appointed to President Bush's Council on Bioethics, said he cannot remember establishing a criterion on the question of belief with a student on exams or with letters of recommendation.

"I taught at five institutions and have always felt you should grade papers and offer judgments on the quality of arguments rather than a position on which they arrived."

Professors "enjoy the protection of academic freedom" and Dini "seems to be profoundly ungrateful" for the freedom, Vanderpool said.

He said a teacher cannot be forced to write a letter of recommendation for a student, which he believes is good because the letters are personal and have "to do with the professor's assessment of students' work habits, character, grades, persistence and so on."

A policy such as Dini's needs to be in the written materials and should be stated in front of the class so the student is not surprised by the policy and can drop the class, Vanderpool said.

Dini's site states that an individual who denies the evidence commits malpractice in the method of science because "good scientists would never throw out data that do not conform to their expectations or beliefs."

People throw out information be cause "it seems to contradict his/her cherished beliefs," Dini's site reads. A physician who ignores data cannot remain a physician for long, it states.

Dini's site lists him as an exceptional faculty member at Texas Tech in 1995 and says he was named "Teacher of the Year" in 1998-99 by the Honors College at Texas Tech.

Edwards said he does not see any evidence on Dini's vita that he attended medical school or treated patients.

"Dr. Dini is a nonmedical person trying to impose his ideas on medicine," Edwards said. "There is little in common between teaching biology classes and treating sick people. ... How dare someone who has never treated a sick person purport to impose his feelings about evolution on someone who aspires to treat such people?"

On his Web site, Dini questions how someone who does not believe in the theory of evolution can ask to be recommended into a scientific profession by a professional scientist.

May, who taught at multiple prestigious universities, including Yale, during his 50 years in academia, said he did not want to judge Dini and qualified his statements because he did not know all of the specifics.

He said the doctors may be viewing Dini's policy as a roadblock, but the professor may be warning them in advance of his policy so students are not dismayed later.

"I have never seen it done and am surprised to hear it, but he may find creationist aggressive in the class and does not want to have to cope with that," May said. "He is at least giving people the courtesy of warning them in advance."

The policy seems unusual, May said, but Dini should not be "gang-tackled and punished for his policy."

The criterion may have been viewed as a roadblock for Micah Spradling at Tech, but it opened a door for him at LCU.

Classes at LCU were full, Tim Spradling said, but school officials made room for his son after he showed them Dini's policy.

skitchen@lubbockonline.com 766-8753


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: academia; crevolist; evolution
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To: VadeRetro
Evolution teaches everything washed out of a mudball!
41 posted on 10/06/2002 10:38:55 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
I might also mention that volcanic versus sedimentary layers are not distributed as your model describes. Already falsified by the birth of real geology in the 1830s-40s.
42 posted on 10/06/2002 10:40:18 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: *crevo_list
Index ping.
43 posted on 10/06/2002 10:45:40 AM PDT by scripter
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To: VadeRetro
More on Missing Intermediates

It was only a relatively short time ago that evolutionists denied the existence of any real gaps in the archaeological record. When you stated the obvious, they asked you to quote a mainstream evolutionist to back your allegedly ridiculous claims up. Stephan J. Gould therefore took a courageous risk with his career, in proposing a theory in the 1970s called punctuated equilibrium ( punk-eek ), which openly admitted large gaps in the fossil record. And while many evolutionists have bitterly and regularly attacked Gould for this, including Dawkins, it is fortunate for Gould that the response of his fellow scientists was not wholly hostile, and his career does not appear to have suffered as a result. In fact, his original paper has become quite celebrated in some quarters.

So, there are no fossil remains of intermediates. But as a thought experiment, what would they hypothetically have looked like?

Well, Denton in his book Evoltuion a Theory in Crisis provides a description of the best current guess for brids. It basically consists of a flightless bird hopping around trying to catch flies, and SOMEHOW, slowly developing wings to jump a little bit higher each time. A number of problems spring to mind with this thesis.


Firstly, light feathers are totally different from down feathers or feathers used for insulation; they involve an exquisite system of cross-latched barbules and shapes which are totally different from those of down feathers. Moreover, a flight feather would be totally useless for anything other than flight, and so the odds would be massively weighted against a creature which did not have them to begin with ever developing them. There would be no reason for it. The odds of it happening would be an infinitessimal, basically one divided by some gigantic number. Likewise with the development of arms into wings; that would actually be disfunctional prior to the day the creature flew and, again, the odds against such a development for no particular reason are astronomical. We DO have several kinds of birds such as ostriches with vestigian wings, but again these are descended from birds which flew and are not in some process of evolving INTO flying birds. They are developing OUT of being flying birds. Flying birds likewise require highly specialized bone structures, tails, hearts, lungs, and general balance parameters, all of which are totally different from those of other creatures, any of which would be antifunctional prior to flight. Developing any one of these things prior to being flight-capable would require overcoming gigantic odds. The odds of ALL of these things developing from scratch thus, which is required by the notions of evolution of flying birds, thus amount to several infinitessimals MULTIPLIED TOGETHER. The entire age of the universe isn't long enough for that to happen. In fact, assuming one such feature had developed by chance, by the time the next one did, the first would, in all likelihood, still having been antifunctional during the time that the the next was evolving, have de-evolved. The only other possibility from the point of view of evolution would be to have all necessary functionality for flying birds arise via mutation on the same day, which is a miracle whether God did it, Ra did it, or (as an evolutionist claim for such a thing would have to amount to) Loki (luck) did it.
The funny thing is that scientists believe in evolution(ism) because they wish to rule out what they see as the "supernatural" alternative, while in fact they have created the supernatural alternative in their requirement for endless violations of probabilistic laws. Thus, we observe that any change to a substantially different kind of creature with new kinds of organs, an entirely new set of system integration requirements for those organs with both old and other new organs, and a new plan for life, is seen to be a zero-probability event, both statistically and programmatically.

And thats just the macro part of avian evlution. Denton also discusses the micro-bilogical features of an intermediate. This is much harder hitting, and evoltuionists are 100% clueless on how this transition happened. And do not tell me the first bird could have been a glider - the flight principals are totaly different for powered and unpowered flight. In all honestly, I do not think there is a valid intermediate form for a bird - it is mathematically and physcially impossible, both on a microbiological level AND a macroscopic system level. Period.

Molecular Intermediates: Proof of evolution, or yet another nail in the coffin?

In the 1960s scientists began to figure that not only did animals differ at the morphological level in terms of their gross anatomy, but that they also varied at the molecular level. So evolutionists reasoned, by analysing the molecules, DNA, proteins, etc, we should be able to uncover the precise evolutionary relationships between species. And indeed, it has been revealed that all animals on this planet have astonishing similarities at the molecular level which point irrefutably to there being some common process behind the appearance of life on this planet. We can also say with great confidence that microevolution and population genetics have now moved from the status of theory, to a well established and understood scientific fact.

However, the problem has been no clear molecular intermediates have been found between any of the previously established classes of organisms. All we have is extensive tables of isolated classes of molecules, none of which shed much light on how one turns into another. For the full details I refer you to chapter 12 of Denton's book Evolution a Theory in Crisis. I refuse to reproduce large chucks of it for you, because he deserves to make money from his excellent text. But, he does take you through protein, RNA, haemoglobin, nucleic acid, and other molecules to demonstrate this point. The traditional evolutionary sequence of cyclostome - fish - amphibian - reptile - mammal, is shown to be an exploded myth. Mammals are as close in molecular terms to cyclostimes, as fish and amphibians! Traditional text book favourites for evolutionists such as the lung fish, are shown to exhibit no molecular signs whatsoever of their alleged critical intermediate status!










Chandra Wickramasinghe has compared the neo-Darwinian account of evolution to saying that all of world literature came from the book of Genesis by occasional typos and paragraph swapping. The mechanism discussed here is analogous to stipulating that every text along the way was viable as literature. Such gradualistic series have not been shown to be possible in written text or computer programs. Nor have they been shown to exist in biology. If this is how new genes are supposed to evolve, the mechanism remains to be demonstrated.






Theory of Evolution: Click to return to main evolution page
44 posted on 10/06/2002 10:48:23 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; *crevo_list; RadioAstronomer; Scully; Piltdown_Woman; ...
So that everyone will have access to the accumulated Creationism vs. Evolution threads which have previously appeared on FreeRepublic, plus links to hundreds of sites with a vast amount of information on this topic, here's Junior's massive work, available for all to review:
The Ultimate Creation vs. Evolution Resource [ver 19].
45 posted on 10/06/2002 10:49:26 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: f.Christian
The... link!
46 posted on 10/06/2002 10:50:02 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: hispanarepublicana
FOR SURE.
47 posted on 10/06/2002 10:50:04 AM PDT by Quix
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To: Ahban
If we lived in a theocracy and they wanted to stop you from being a doctor because you were an evo, I'd stick up for you Vade.

How did this professor stop anyone from becoming a doctor?

48 posted on 10/06/2002 10:50:35 AM PDT by general_re
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To: PatrickHenry
"No one doubts the improbability of events. Your existence is highly improbable. So is mine. Think of all the events in just the past 100 generations which could have caused any of our ancestors to behave differently than they did. Yet all the past events happened, naturally, step by step, and here we are, so mere improbability is not much of an issue."

"The facts upon which evolution theory is based are rather well established. Mutations happen. They really do. And new species appear over time, really. And they appear in form and DNA to be related to pre-existing species. No joke, that's the evidence. In every generation, those best suited for the game of life are most likely to breed the next generation. Mutation and natural selection. And time, lots of time. They're the stuff of evolution."

"The results are always going to be seen as improbable in retrospect, but that's how things happen. It's such a reasonable explanation that there's no need to wave it all away and grasp instead for an external "designer" for whom there is no evidence at all.

"So I don't see ID as an "honest attempt" to deal with improbability. Rather, it's a clever attempt to confuse the poorly trained public with slick (but unscientific) patter."

353 posted on 9/19/02 2:24 PM Pacific by PatrickHenry

"Mutation and natural selection. And time, lots of time. They're the stuff of evolution."


49 posted on 10/06/2002 10:53:00 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: balrog666
[Professor Michael Dini's position] Sounds reasonable to me.

Yes. If you were a math teacher, would you recommend someone for further math studies if he didn't truly believe that 2+2 = 4?

50 posted on 10/06/2002 10:53:10 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: tjg
MUCH AGREE WITH YOUR POINTS EXCEPT:

None of it science though. Which is sort of the point.

I believe plenty of the evidence is MUCH BETTER SCIENCE than the religion of science defending evolution. There are outlandish statements on both sides. But actually, I believe the better science is on the side of those who say the traditional evolutionary scenarios are at best exceedingly lacking as a thorough explanation for what we find.

I believe evolution will be done in by the globalist people coming along and insisting, probably with some ET help, that ET's seeded the earth with engineered progenators etc.

Somehow, God will have the last laugh.

As my dissertation chairman [a Mormon bishop] said when I asked him how he handled the different versions of the Book of Mormon [which wasn't supposed to have been ever revised] and he said--LIFE IS SO COMPLEX, JUST ABOUT ANY COCK-A-MAYMEE IDEA WILL DO.

Nevertheless, The Bible will end up proven true every jot and tittle--whether we know conclusively what each and every word meant in the original and from God's perspective or not.
51 posted on 10/06/2002 10:57:20 AM PDT by Quix
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To: VadeRetro
Now come on Vade, you know that facts are wasted on f.Christian.
52 posted on 10/06/2002 10:58:00 AM PDT by BMCDA
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To: Ahban
They will still view you as a sacred being made in the image of their God. The evo believers will view you as a failing machine that is about ready for the scrap heap.

Or the creationist will think that your time has come to go back to your creator and the evolutionist may be convinced that this is your only life and so tries to preserve it as long as possible.

53 posted on 10/06/2002 11:01:31 AM PDT by BMCDA
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

To: nanrod
You assume Texas Tech gets both state and federal funding and I'd guess the people of Texas would not appreciate state funding being used this way.

Being used what way?

55 posted on 10/06/2002 11:07:21 AM PDT by general_re
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To: hispanarepublicana
I think this professor could be a real ingrate," Vanderpool said. "I have a problem with a colleague who has enjoyed all the academic freedoms we have, which are extensive, and yet denies that to our students."

And evos here on FreeRepublic try just as hard to deny a similar objective freedom to anybody who doesn't buy the theory of evolution. It appears Dini and perhaps some of my fellow evo freepers have has taken the red pill. Those of us who don't buy the theory of evolution have taken the blue pill.

56 posted on 10/06/2002 11:07:23 AM PDT by scripter
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To: VadeRetro
. Axelrod, Science 128:7-

"One of the major unsolved problems of geology and evolution is the occurrence of diversified, multi-cellular marine invertebrates in Lower Cambrian rocks on all the continents and their absence in rocks of greater age."

"their absence in rocks of 'greater' age."

The 'greater' age in layers exists if you think the layers formed from the top!

At one pt. the whole of the Earth was hot cooling from the surface in successive layers from below---outward!

Nothing missing in those layers---no mystery!

These invertebrates can only exist above ground level...in water/air---not underground!



57 posted on 10/06/2002 11:10:59 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: BMCDA
Review by Richard Milton
When, a dozen years ago, I first published my view that Darwinism is scientifically flawed, I immediately encountered a kind of opponent who was to become very familiar to me over the next decade. I mean the kind who (quite sincerely) believes that anyone who challenges the conventional Darwinist view must be someone who is simply ignorant of the scientific facts. Such an opponent thus sets out to cure the ignorance he meets by the simple expedient of rehashing over and over again the tenets of the received wisdom, as found in the pages of Nature and Scientific American.

These guardians of Darwinian truth find it literally impossible to believe that anyone could actually have conducted some research and analysis that has led them to conclude rationally that Darwinism is scientifically flawed and think that -- like an Englishman abroad -- if only they shout a little louder, the dimwit foreigner might finally get the Darwinist message.

Michael Brass is such an upholder of the received wisdom on Darwinism, and his book, The Antiquity of Man, is just such a rehashing of that received wisdom. There is nothing new here. No new facts, no new scientific discoveries, not even a new interpretation or new analysis, merely the repetition of all the same old stuff that anyone who has ever spent time in a dentist's waiting room, leafing through old copies of National Geographic, is already thoroughly familiar with.

But in his book, Brass is not merely sounding off about anti-Darwinists in general -- he has some specific targets in his sights. From the outset he attacks scientific creationists for their views and he singles out the book 'Forbidden Archaeology' by Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson.

As I'm not a creationist, and I don't have any religious beliefs, I don't intend to try to speak for Cremo, Thompson or anyone else, and I'm sure they are well able to look after themselves. But I am concerned, as a secular critic of the scientific content of Darwinism, that writers like Brass are getting away with obscuring the real scientific issues under the guise of 'debunking' what they pretend is merely 'creationist propaganda', a pretext that enables them to continue to dodge engaging in real scientific debate.

I've read Cremo and Thomson's book. I didn't find any religious propaganda or creationist messages, but I did find a mountain of carefully compiled scientific observations and reports that uniformly tend to undermine the conventional view that people like Brass hold so tightly and are unwilling even to debate openly and honestly. Certainly there are a few geological and palaeontological observations in Forbidden Archaeology that I found weak or questionable. That is hardly surprising since the book is 1000 pages long and contains thousands of references.

What a book like Forbidden Archaeology shows, in my view, is that if even a half (or even a tenth) of the objections raised by its authors are valid scientific objections, then Darwinism is a theory that is in deep, irremediable trouble. And the best that Brass can do in the way of rebuttal is to question a handful of their cases as unproven or badly chosen. His preferred method of rebuttal in almost all cases is that described earlier: he simply recites again, more loudly, the accepted Darwinist view.

We get an early glimpse of Brass's fundamentalist stance on the evidence claimed to support Darwinism such as dating of fossils. On page 38 he presents a table of two kinds of fossil dating. He labels the first as 'relative dating' and the second, radiometric dating by the potassium-argon method, he calls 'absolute dating'. Now, as his degrees are in history and archaeology, it is perfectly possible that Brass is completely unaware of the important scientific error he is making in describing radiometric dating of fossils as 'absolute' dating, and is merely taking it on trust from his physicist colleagues that his belief is correct -- as most scientists do. But the fact remains that the words 'absolute dating' can never be used in connection with the radiometric dating of fossils of any kind. (For background to dating fossils, see 'Shattering the myths of Darwinism' chapters 3, 4, and 5.)

To be fair, I should add that Brass is far from being the only professional scientist who is confused about this question. Most Darwinists are. Even Gavin de Beer, director of the British Museum of Natural History, wrote in the museum's Guide to Evolution, first published in 1970, that the rocks forming the geological column and the fossils in them had been directly dated by radiometric methods -- a claim which is scientific nonsense and based solely on ignorance of the real facts.

In the same passage, Brass tries to make his claims for the potassium-argon method seem credible by pointing out that '0.01% of all natural potassium is radiopotassium.' To the uninitiated, this rarity must make the method seem special. But Brass forgets to mention that the substance this radioactive potassium turns into, the end product that is measured, is argon-40. Argon is the twelfth most abundant element on earth, and more than 99 per cent of it is argon-40. And there is no physical or chemical way to tell whether a given sample of argon-40 is the residue of radioactive potassium or was present in the rocks when they formed.

There are many other places where Brass shows he has swallowed Darwinist urban scientific myths hook, line and sinker. On the very first page of his introduction he repeats the commonly-made claim that Darwinian evolution is supported by observed speciation, when the true scientific facts are that there is not a single real case of observed Darwinian speciation (the cases listed in the talk-origin "FAQ" being entirely bogus [more information available here]).

Whenever he encounters scientific evidence that he is unable to rebut, Brass appeals to authorities who, in his mind, are so grand as to be unimpeachable. Yet these 'authorities' and their words often turn out on closer inspection to have no more substance than Brass himself.

For example, the work of zoologist Solly Zuckermann, has long been a thorn in the side of Darwinists because Zuckermann conducted a study which concluded that Australopithecines (like 'Lucy') were predominantly ape-like and not human-like creatures and thus not ancestral to humans. Brass dismisses the work of Zuckermann, one of Britain's most distinguished zoologists, by reference to a quote from Jim Foley. Who is Jim Foley? He is the author of the talk-origins "FAQ" on human origins, which is as badly-researched and bogus as the rest of the talk-origins "FAQs" [more information available here].

In writing this book, Michael Brass has put on his arms and armour, chosen a cause about which he feels passionately, selected a battleground and engaged those he perceives as the enemies of science. Unfortunately, his armour doesn't fit him, his weapons are blunt, his passionate cause is already lost and, worst of all, he has chosen the wrong battle. For instead of attacking the real enemies of science -- the brain-dead pedlars of urban scientific myths -- he is attacking the few people who are making an honest attempt to question a theory that is long past its sell-by date.

This book is designed to bring aid and comfort to the excrement-hurling howler monkeys that infest Internet groups such as talk-origins, by reaffirming once more the oft-told Darwinist tale of human origins. It does not advance the cause of scientific investigation nor, despite its title, does it shed any light on the antiquity of mankind.

Richard Milton is the author of Shattering the Myths of Darwinism and 'Alternative Science'.




58 posted on 10/06/2002 11:14:15 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: gore3000
To: PatrickHenry

Except in the case of bacteria and insects, we can't personally observe it happening.

You constantly say that evolution is a fact, well where are the facts Patrick? Just a lot of double talk is what you give us. And no, even in bacteria and insects we have not seen evolution occurring. Show the experimental evidence for it. I am sure you will not. And no, assumptions are not facts, they are not even evidence.


409 posted on 9/29/02 9:29 PM Pacific by gore3000

59 posted on 10/06/2002 11:15:10 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: scripter
And evos here on FreeRepublic try just as hard to deny a similar objective freedom to anybody who doesn't buy the theory of evolution. It appears Dini and perhaps some of my fellow evo freepers have has taken the red pill. Those of us who don't buy the theory of evolution have taken the blue pill.

Darnit. I have that backwards. I should have looked first! The evo's have taken the blue pill! I just pulled a Patrick Henry!

60 posted on 10/06/2002 11:16:08 AM PDT by scripter
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