Abortion Quotes From Those In the Industry

www.byxbe.com ^ | Fri, 13 Sep 1996 | Right Now.com

[yendu bwam]

That being said, I place a far higher value over thinking and breathing humans than I do unborn fetuses.

A newborn baby breathes but does not think very much. Which would mean that you'd be in the same camp as someone like 'ethicist' Peter Singer at Princeton, who believes we should be able to kill babies before they turn two, since they don't have a sense of self yet. Or what about damaged humans - people with severe physical or mental liabilities? They're not as capable as us lucky people. Guess they shouldn't be valued as highly either - as per your way of thinking. Few people can imagine that God thinks that way - that He places different degrees of value on people according to their abilities. And few believe that God would forsake those whose abilities will in a few short months develop immensely. We want to make ourselves Gods with abortion. Bad mistake.

[yendu bwam]

But then, people are persuaded more by emotion than by reason--ask any salesman.

Don't know. Josef Stalin was a very rational, but unemotional man.

[yendu bwam]

This is a wonderful post. I found it very hopeful becasue it is mostly quotes from people who, like me, have changed their minds about abortion. People are changeing, slowly but it is coming...

A majority in this country now believes that abortion is tantamount to murder.

[yendu bwam]

Does our society value some people above others? Most certainly. In fact, all societies do that. If you could save the life of only one of two people--G.W. Bush or a developmentally disabled janitor--which do you think most Freepers would choose? Honestly.

You are a Dr. Singer type, I see. I'm sorry for you. You are one of those who looks at people and judges who is intrinsically more worthy to live. I warn you, my friend, someday (and remember, you heard it hear first), you may be on the wrong end of someone else's judgment. If I had a developmentally disabled child, or an elderly grandmother whose body was failing, I'd be afraid to have your type around them.

[yendu bwam]

We've made a decision that fetuses have significantly less value than the living.

No, WE have not. Actually, a majority of Americans disagree. It's really nine people sitting on a bench who made that decision.

[Desdemona]

Thank you. I couldn't finish this post. It's too painful. I'll never understand how anyone could do this.

[yendu bwam]

Hence, either there is no God, or there is a God who is at best negligent, at worse bent on causing human suffering. In any event, the courageous person stands up against such a God, regardless of the threat of perdition.

The vast, vast majority of the world's population intuits and infers a God from the evidence available to them. 1/3 of the world's population intuits a Christian God, who sent his Son to this earth. That message, so accepted by that 1/3 of humanity, is one of complete and total love - including such for unborn children (who have every much of a right to live as you do), for old people, for disabled people. It is hard, nay impossible, for millions and millions to stand up against a God of total love. Suppose that God does exist - a God of total and uncompromising love - and that your life has been spent promoting the elimination of millions of unborn children (as well as others 'less valuable). And suppose that when you die, you might have a chance to unite yourself with that God. But you can't, because your heart has been so hardened by your calculations of 'fitness', that you have forgotten love.

[yendu bwam]

Regarding making ourselves gods, humans regularly make choices which cause others death. The fact of limited resources, unlimited human demand, and a burgeoning world population means that affluent societies live at the expense of the starving. It's a choice, usually unacknowledged.

Well, Stalin and Mao (responsible together for tens of millions of brutal deaths - including those of children) thought they were doing society a favor. You can rationalize anything if you want. I fear people like you.

[yendu bwam]

Now, if you are one of the few who lives a very austere lifestyle and donates all his extra time and money to feed the starving, I apologize, and applaud you for your commitment to your principles. However, if you're not, then I respectfully suggest you're engaging in that common human diversion of hypocrisy and finger pointing.

Actually, that is part of the Christian ethic. I live far below my means, and the rest is donated to charity. - But that's really beside the point. The fact that society does not value human life does not make it 'good' to join in as well. Unborn children have as much right to live in this world as you did.

[yendu bwam]

I guarantee you that if you start suggesting that the rest of us commit to giving our extra money to other people, you're going to have a lot of angry Freepers up in arms over your socialist ideology.

You are confused my friend. Capitalism does indeed play to everyone's greed. No contention there. As Churchill said about democracy (It's the worst form of government, but for all the others.), so is true for capitalism - it's the worst form of system for material improvement but for all the others. No economic system eliminates poverty over time as efficiently as capitalism - which is why poverty has been virtually eliminated in places that have most embraced it. The genius of the system is that is uses man's inherent greed to help (over the time) provide sustenance and employment for the rest of us. It's not an innately moral system (from a Christian point of view) - but still the best we have.

[yendu bwam]

Suppose God doesn't exist, and you've spent your life advocating false beliefs based on the premise of God's existence, ultimately harming others as a result (if you help create a false map of reality, then you are responsible for the accidents others suffer as a result).

Hey there Chimpanzee, you should be asking the opposite question! If God doesn't exist, and Christ's message was that of a lunatic, then I will have devoted my life to loving and helping others (and fighting for a kid's right not to be annihilated before birth). I'll have no regrets when I die. If I'm right about God and Christ, I'll have a chance to unite with the grestest most loving force that exists. Not bad, huh? On the other hand, if you are wrong, you may be making a serious error with extreme consequences.

[yendu bwam]

Would you consider that person a good person, or a bad person? Is the morality of a person's act measured by: his intent, the act itself, or by the outcome of the act?

Christians are commanded not to judge the goodness and badness of a person - but they are, of course, supposed to encourage ACTS of goodness and oppose ACTS of badness. There is a huge difference (which is not immediately apparent to non-Christians). As a result, I don't judge 'the morality' of a person. I judge his acts. Christians believe, however, that God, knowing what resides in a man's heart (something us humans are not privy to), will make the ultimate judgment as to the goodness or badness of a person.

[TomSmedley]

The real issue is how you value human life. If you believe in a god, then human life presumably has value.

But if you don't believe in god, then the question of the value of human life gets interesting.

Anyway, that is how some of us can live with the fact of abortion.

I'm reminded of the cerebral Karamazov brother who said, "If there is no God, then everything is permissible."

OTOH, if there is a God who hears every silent scream, than 9/11 merely made visible the hideous holocaust He sees every normal business day in abortionist's America. The bills are piling up. And payday's gonna be a bitch.

[yendu bwam]

If there is a God, he/it allows human and animal suffering that is horrible. It is the kind of suffering that no decent human being would allow to happen.

Most human suffering (outside of the inevitable decay of our bodies) comes from the acts of other humans. Putting people down, making them feel low, bragging, saying untrue things about others, cheating on others' wives, violently hurting others, refusing to help others when their luck is down, etc. etc. - all this comes from men's hearts. Though I certainly cannot speak for God(!), most religious people presume that God tolerates our suffering at the hands of others in order to give us a chance (of our own free will) to choose the right side in the great battle between good and evil on this earth. This was the example of Christ. He suffered immensely to show us how to stay true to the good (and the Godly), while accepting the suffering inevitably caused by evil in this world.