How do you know the Bible is true?

In the United States of America, most Christian ministers don't really believe the Bible.

Don't stop the presses – this is not breaking news. In fact, back in the 1960s, University of Virginia professor and sociologist Jeffrey Hadden conducted a survey of 10,000 U.S. pastors – to which 7,441 replied. Their responses revealed what many had long suspected: A large number of the ministers polled openly denied core tenets of the Christian faith, such as Jesus' virgin birth and physical resurrection.

Although Hadden, when I contacted him to verify the poll numbers bandied about on different websites, couldn't confirm them after 35 years, here are a few of the shocking findings he made, according to Rev. D. James Kennedy's Coral Ridge Ministries.

Asked whether they believed that the Old and New Testament Scriptures were the "inspired and inerrant Word of God in faith, history and secular matters," mainline ministers responded "NO" in overwhelming numbers:

Episcopalians, 95 percent Methodists, 87 percent Presbyterians, 82 percent Remember, those are "NO" responses.

Such was the state of the church in America during the doubt-plagued '60s and the "God is dead" movement that mushroomed during that tumultuous era. As Time magazine's notorious "Is God Dead?" cover story proclaimed in 1966: "There is an acute feeling that the churches on Sunday are preaching the existence of a God who is nowhere visible in their daily lives." Surveying the religious malaise and uncertainty infecting mainstream Christianity at the time, Time quoted Francis B. Sayre, then Episcopal dean of Washington's famed National Cathedral, as saying, "I'm confused as to what God is – but so is the rest of America."

What about today? With the cascading scandals involving predatory homosexual Roman Catholic priests, Protestant denominations' ordination of practicing homosexuals and even (in at least one case) a man-to-woman surgically altered transsexual, and other equally dramatic breaks with traditional values and teachings that have led to multiple schisms in mainline denominations, it's clear the church's "confused" state has only worsened since the '60s.

But as I say, this is old news. So rather than join the choir bewailing the ever-more-blatant apostasy of mainline churches, let's take a look at those remaining ministers who claim to stand firmly on the Word of God.

"If it's in the Bible, you can believe it. If you can't find it in Scripture, forget it." That's probably the most fundamental and frequent admonition you hear from Bible-believing Christian ministers. "If your faith is not founded on Scripture," they exhort, "you're building your house on sand. But if it's founded firmly on Scripture, you're building your house on a rock, and it will stand."

Even among those who claim the Bible is the "inspired, inerrant Word of God," there are vast differences in what they believe the Bible actually says.

There are hundreds and even thousands of distinct Christian denominations and sects. Virtually all of these denominations profess to base their beliefs and practices substantially on the Holy Bible, and many consider themselves the true church – to the exclusion of all others.

Some differences, of course, are relatively minor and understandable variations of emphasis; others deal with significant matters of doctrine, from baptism to divorce to eternal life. But even more to the point, different denominations' profiles tend to match nicely the pre-existing worldview of the congregants. There's something for everyone.

Thus, there's a politically liberal Christianity and a politically conservative Christianity – both supposedly based on the same Bible. There's an acutely activist Christianity and an utterly apolitical Christianity, a Christianity that holds up a high standard of ethical behavior and service, and a Christianity for which both personal ethics and good works are irrelevant. There's a loving Christianity and a hateful, racist Christianity, a Christianity that honors Jews as God's chosen people and a Christianity that maligns Jews as Satan's children – either overtly or subtly.

The variations are endless and sometimes bizarre. Out on the fringes of Pentecostalism, there are churches that believe in handling poisonous snakes and drinking poison as a test and proof of their faith. Mostly located in the Southeastern U.S., these churches stake their identity on Jesus' words recorded in the Gospel according to Mark: "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." (Mark 16:17-18)

Well, Jesus did say, "these signs will follow those who believe," so what's wrong with handling vipers and drinking poison?

Of course, our common sense tell us – regardless of what Jesus' actual meaning was – that He didn't intend for the faithful to "tempt God" by drinking strychnine and strutting around on stage with rattlers and cottonmouths, practices that every year result in one or more deaths being reported from these churches.

So, let's come back to our basic question of "How do we know the Bible is true?" and add a second one, "How do we know how to interpret the Bible?" so we can avoid being bitten by a deadly snake or falling prey to a subtler but equally poisonous misinterpretation.

To bring this heavenly question down to earth a bit, consider the difficulty people have in agreeing on the meaning of a much shorter, more recent and more concrete document – the U.S. Constitution. Unlike the Bible, which is mystical, written by many different authors in different languages over the course of many centuries, the Constitution was written with simplicity and clarity of expression in mind, by the same group, and only two centuries ago (except for the later amendments). Moreover, it was written in English, so translation is not an issue.

To top it off, there's a plethora of contemporaneous writings, most importantly "The Federalist Papers," explaining clearly and pointedly what the Founding Fathers meant.

And yet – politicians, judges, lawyers, special interest groups and ordinary citizens manage to come up with fantastically divergent interpretations of the same document that is meant to be our country's common rulebook.

One example – an obvious and egregious one, though only one of many – is the Second Amendment. It clearly articulates the right of individual citizens to own and carry guns. ("A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.") As if such clear language wasn't sufficient to assure a common understanding of its meaning, even a cursory investigation of the historical background of the amendment and contemporaneous statements of the Constitution's framers leaves zero doubt as to their intent.

Yet many educated and sophisticated people have convinced themselves the Second Amendment doesn't really say what it says. For that matter, a majority of congressmen evidently believe the "promote the general Welfare" clause from the Constitution's Preamble justifies the modern welfare state. A majority of the justices on the United States Supreme Court have discovered the right to murder unborn babies in the 14th Amendment. (If it's really in there, then the 14th Amendment is even more mystical than the book of Revelation.)

Just as politicians, bureaucrats and judges interpret the Constitution the way they want – to accommodate their particular beliefs, desires, ambitions and worldview, no matter how deluded or corrupt – so do millions of Christians, including their clergy, interpret the Bible – their religion's "constitution," if you will – in ways that are comfortable and pleasing to them, but not necessarily reflecting the genuine meaning of the text.

You don't agree that homosexuality is an "abomination"? Well, just interpret the Bible to mean something other than what it clearly says. ("Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." --Lev. 18:22. I don't think it's humanly possible to phrase it more succinctly or unambiguously than that.) If something happens to rub you a bit the wrong way, doesn't fit in with your prideful worldview, prohibits some behavior you enjoy, or holds up a standard of conduct with which you disagree – hey, just de-emphasize it, claim it was imperfectly translated, ignore it, or say it was intended for the people of an ancient time and place, but not for us, here and now.

How do we know the Bible is true? Please don't tell me it's because the Bible says so. No disrespect intended, but that's circular reasoning. The Koran and every other supposed holy book also claim to be the true revealed text directly from God. So how do you really know the Bible, and not the Koran, is the revealed word of God?

And again, even if we do believe the Bible is God's sacred textbook, how do we know how to interpret what it really means?

Question: Is stealing wrong because the Bible says it's wrong, or does the Bible say stealing is wrong because it is wrong? Which came first?

What about murder? Was murder wrong before God gave Moses the Ten Commandments? When Cain slew Abel, there was no Bible and no Ten Commandments. Yet God held Cain accountable, and set a curse upon him. But why should Cain have known killing his brother was wrong, if there was no law?

The truth, of course, is that God's living law, the inborn ability to discern right from wrong, was written in Cain's heart, as it is in every human being who's ever lived. The word "conscience" literally means "with knowing." We all know.

We all know right from wrong, deep down. We're self-contained truth machines, if only we'd pay attention. It's only our pride, our willfulness to have our own way, to be the god of our own lives, to rationalize our compulsions and sins – and the inevitable denial of truth that follows – that disconnects us from it.

When my daughter was 3 years old, I used the occasion of her misbehaving with her younger brother to introduce her to the Golden Rule. I remember being amazed when I realized she clearly understood what I was saying. The "do-unto-others-as-you-would-have-them-do-unto-you" message went right home, immediately and full force, into her heart. I remember thinking to myself, "My gosh, a 3-year-old can understand Jesus' message!" The fact that she could recognize the truth and rightness of the Golden Rule when she heard it for the first time in her life means she had the essence of its message already inside of her, though perhaps dormant. Otherwise, how could she recognize it and respond to it when I spoke those few words to her?

We're talking about the beginning of faith – our invisible connection to our Creator.

Did you ever do the wrong thing, and then, looking back to the moments just before you made the mistake, recall that you had experienced an intuitive flash, a little bit of a wordless warning, like an aversion or feeling not to do it? Like most of us, you ignored it and did the wrong thing anyway. But that "still small voice" – a voiceless voice, really – tried to steer you away from a wrong action. That's from God. Typically, people learn to honor and respect such intuitive leadings first in hindsight, as they realize they ignored God's loving nudge – and later in foresight, as they discover by experience which impulses to obey and which to resist in life.

Inside every truly sincere person ("sincere" as in humble-before-your-Creator, not as in so-deluded-you-can't-see-your-delusions) there is an inner witness, a wordless knowing, a quiet confirmation of all truth, including the Bible. Indeed, when all is said and done, you know the Bible is true because you just know deep down that it is true. It's a matter of quiet inner revelation, direct to your heart and mind from the source of all true revelation.

Although as a youth your belief in the Bible may have been the direct consequence of the loving guidance of your parents, ultimately you reverence the Bible not because they told you to do so. After all, they could have been wrong – they've been wrong about other things, haven't they? Moreover, as we grow up, each of us must revisit the beliefs we adopted from our parents, so that those "grafted-on" beliefs can become truly our own convictions.

For the same reasons, you reverence the Bible not because your minister or youth group or church or anybody or anything else on this earth told you to – they also could be wrong. You reverence the Bible because, as a child of God, you are connected directly to your Creator, and He puts it in your heart that this is indeed the sacred history and mystery, the past, present and future of mankind – a book from another dimension, if you will, put here for our edification and instruction.

When you reverently inquire into the meaning, not only of the Holy Scriptures, but of everything in life, and – very important – when you have the courage actually to believe what you see revealed in your "heart of hearts" in response to your sincere searching, you are living by faith.

Our quiet inner belief that stealing and murder are wrong just because we can plainly see they're wrong, this instant embrace of the Golden Rule just because we can see for ourselves that it's right, this wordless quality of discernment between ethical and unethical behavior, this deep and wordless understanding of both life and Scripture that graces us from beyond the borders of our education and experience – which we regard too lightly as just "common sense" – is in reality God's communication with us through faith.

And since its source is beyond all earthly culture and authority, indeed from beyond space and time, it is our true compass for all things. The Bible is our map. But we need the compass of the living God within us to understand the words of the Bible.

Yes, yes, yes!!!! You're right on! One must remember the "demographic" of the day. The authors knew their audience and were writing it in terms they could understand. Although the Bible is the inspired word of God, people in those times did not have the level of understanding we do today. For instance, the Book of Genesis put the creation of the world in terms that these folks could understand. They would not be able to pick up an issue of "Popular Science" and understand it the way we do today.

However, I don't believe God means for us to know everything right now. There has to be room to choose to have Faith.

Which brings us to Pascal's Wager, which is attributed to Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), a French mathematician and philosopher. Pascal was one of the first to think about the mathematics of probability. He drew upon his work on probability in order to formulate an argument that is supposed to show that it is rational to believe in God (and irrational not to do so). Essentially, he argues that it is a better bet to believe God exists than to believe God doesn't exist.

Pascal states that there are two possibilities concerning God's existence: either God exists or God doesn't exist. He then notes that there are two possibilities concerning whether you believe God exists: either you believe God exists or you don't. That makes for four possible combinations with very different outcomes associated with each combination. Pascal adds that we have no way of proving whether or not God exists, so we can't make any claims about which of the possible outcomes is likely.

I put the outcomes in this table, hopefully the HTML works:

God Exists		God Doesn't Exist
You believe God exists	Heaven	Slight loss
You don't believe God exists	Hell	Slight gain

Pascal points out that there is only a slight gain from living as if God does not exist even if that is the case, because the world has ways of appling consequences to actions with or with out God. For example, promiscuity and sexually transmitted diseases.

Therefore, declared Pascal, it is better to bet on God.

I think if there is a God, the only possiblity is that it is totally indifferent and irrelvant to us and our existence. He doesn't care about human beings and as far as I can tell anything for that matter.

A perfect compassionate being who creates beings which he knows are doomed to suffer = impossible IMO.

If God supposedly created the universe, he saw the intense sufferings which humans would endure in the future.

He had the ability to stop it beforehand since God is capable of anything.
In the bible it even says that a perfect being would not let those humans be born at all.
A God that makes imperfect decisions isn't an almighty being.

Why is a God who can't or does not want to give you evidence worthy of anyones worship? He is a deliquent God. Or what's the line in The Devil's advocate, "he's an absentee landlord"

Why not be reasonable and give everyone a fair shot to choose or reject him in a fair, unbiased and just manner. He didn't even give us clear rules. The creator is suppose to be capable of anything and he couldn't even give us that much? Instead he gives the entire human population a ridiculous riddle-like guessing game. Its unfair, unjust and an almighty God would never allow it. God is supposedly about justice and this explanation is nothing but a farce.

I think if there is a God, the only possiblity is that it is totally indifferent and irrelvant to us and our existence. He doesn't care about human beings and as far as I can tell anything for that matter. A perfect compassionate being who creates beings which he knows are doomed to suffer = impossible IMO.

I never understood why so many find the Christian doctrine of free will so incomprehensible. I understood it long before I had religious faith. If you create a world in which no one can do any wrong or come to any harm, they have no free will. You can't be good unless the option is there to do evil. You can't choose God if you are pre-programmed to find him. You are just brainless automata.

"I suspect that much of the Bible is based upon earlier mythology."

There have been all kinds of birth, death, & resurrection
myths. Interestingly, this is the exact reason C.S. Lewis, a great lover of pagan myth, rejected Christianity for a time. But he eventually changed his mind, coming to feel that he would be suspicious if there were no such myths preceding Christ. He wrote that "Myth in general is . . . at its best, a real though unfocused gleam of divine truth falling on human imagination." -- with Jesus the ultimate embodiment of same. And, "The old myth of the Dying God, without ceasing to be myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history. It happens — at a particular date, in a particular place, followed by definable historical consequences. We pass from a Balder or an Osiris, dying nobody knows when or where, to a historical Person crucified (it is all in order) under Pontius Pilate. By becoming fact it does not cease to be myth: that is the miracle."

"How do you know the Bible is true? "

You don't....
Otherwise it would'nt take any faith to believe it is the word of God. it seems that God places great store in faith.

Actually I'd be an Atheist if I had enough faith, because you can't prove that God, is'nt either. Given the alternatives of believing God or disbelieving, I go with a positive approach. Is it myth(God) or is it truth? Well judging from my dealings with humans I have to believe some is and some is'nt(the truth is). Which is truth and which not?. WHo knows. These questions should be taken to God, prayer a conversation, whatever. Who could know anyway except ~~him/she~~ God...? Really, would you trust somebodys opinion on this matter? because thats all it would be is an opinion. Course you could take that opinion with faith. But then whom are you trusting.

After all what does God need with a religion? If he did he would pretty impotent. I believe religions are made by man in lieu of having faith. How did I get so smart? I'm not. I'm just a simple moron just like ~~you~~ others. My faith is that God is not a moron. But my observations are that religion(s) are invented by the devil... World History would bear me out on this too, I believe.

I can't prove it but I know God is real by looking back across my life at the two heel marks I've left, I'm very hard headed and God has to drag me to the good stuff.

logical, but not Biblical. I think that's one of the great fallacies about the Bible that is held in the popular culture, but makes it all the more believable to believers. I.e. it does not even pretend to put man at the center of the creation--God is there, and that's the only answer ever given. He is the potter; we are the clay. Scripture even goes so far as to say that some vessels are fitted to destruction. Christ warned that His sayings were hard and John recorded that many were repelled by them, especially when Christ said his followers must eat his flesh and drink his blood. Elsewhere on the threads tonight , it is reported that the pollster Barna can find no evidence that Christianity has transformed lives, and someone has replied, after C.S. Lewis, that Christianity doesn't, Christ does. I would submit that is a facile distinction. Look at the societies that have not (yet) given way to the free course of the Gospel. The penetrance of the Gospel teachings into the everyday lives of people in our society as opposed to,say, the Islamic world, has worked incomprehensibly to change the nature of our existence. This, despite the fact that His kingdom is not of this world. As to not finding a measureable difference between "born-again" and "not born again," God looks on the heart; the Bible never shows us people who seemed to have it all together, but presents them with their inconsistencies and failings, but always God's redemptive purpose and work, and His propitiousness toward them. The Biblical agenda is the organizing principle of the flow of history; that's one way I know it's true.

Hi bufft:

buffyt wrote: I belive everything in the Bible, I just don't know how the dinosaurs fit into the scheme of things.

Have you heard that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and way before man? Or heard that they died out from a huge meteor that hit the earth? That is what they are teaching in the Public Schools. Have you heard that there is a God who created dinosaurs and they died out in Noah's Flood? Probably not!

Dinosaurs did not live million of years ago or live way before man. God said to Job( Job lived after the time of Noah's flood), "Behold now Behemoth". Now I can hear you saying, "what in the world is Behemoth?". Well I think it is an Apatosaurus. Some people think Behemoth is a hippo or an elephant. But read on!

"He eateth grass like an ox." Hippo's eat grass, elephants eat grass, and an apatosaurus eats grass.

"Lo now his strength is in his loins and his force is in the navel of his belly." A hippo has a strong belly, an elephant has a strong belly, and an apatosaurus has a strong belly.!

"He moveth his tail like a cedar tree." Aha! A hippo does not have a tail like a cedar tree, neither does the elephant (more like twigs). BUUUUT an apatosaurus does have a tail like a cedar tree!!!

So Behemoth is a Dinosaur!! !

And God said to Job to behold now behemoth which I made with thee. So Dinosaurs lived with man or God wouldn't of told Job to behold one!

Behold now Behemoth which I made with thee!

He eateth grass like an ox

Lo now his strength is in his loins

and his force in the navel of his belly

he moveth his tail like a cedar tree

The sinews of his thighs are knit together

His bones are like string pieces of brass

His bones are like bars of iron

He is the Chief of the ways of God

book of Job 40 v 15-19

http://www.geocities.com/dinospin/

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/behemoth.html

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