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Amazon.com accused of aiding molesters
WorldNetDaily ^ | September 26, 2002 | Art Moore

Posted on 09/26/2002 7:19:14 AM PDT by scripter

Amazon.com has been accused by a nonprofit legal group of "contributing to the potential rape and molestation of children."

The online retailer's sale and promotion of the book "Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers," by David L. Riegel, is an unfair and unethical business practice, according to a letter sent yesterday to Amazon CEO Jeffrey Bezos by the United States Justice Foundation of Escondido, Calif.

The USJF has given Amazon 30 days to pull the book or face "protracted litigation."

In Riegel's book, released in 2000 by a publisher called SafeHaven Foundation Press, he writes: "Men who sexually pursue young boys are not monsters, but sincere, concerned, loving human beings who simply have a sexual orientation that is neither understood nor accepted by most others."

SafeHaven Foundation Press's purpose, according its website, is to "publish, distribute, and retail non-fiction works on the subjects of boylove, loved boys, and boylovers. "

The book's introduction credits the Internet for bringing into "public awareness" a topic that has been "disparaged and forcibly silenced."

"Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers" also can be bought through the bookseller Borders, which has a special arrangement with Amazon.com.

"For them to allow these nuts to come on and suggest that this is a good thing is an absolute travesty," said Richard Ackerman, litigation counsel for the United States Justice Foundation, who noted that he was a victim of molestation. "I'm not ashamed that I can speak from personal experience to say how evil this is."

'Responsible intergenerational relationships'

Riegel also runs a website "about responsible intergenerational relationships between males." He calls it a "discussion forum where the joys, sorrows, issues and questions of boylove can be brought for honest, thoughtful and respectful discussion in a positive manner."

In the book's introduction, Riegel says: "Whereas men who were loved as boys, and men who have shared their lives and themselves with one or more boys, were before almost totally isolated from one another, the Internet has made possible extended discussions among all who choose to participate."

Ackerman charges that Amazon.com, which allows readers to post their own reviews of books, has created its own "free-for-all forum whereby pedophiles can share their darkest fantasies and promotion of child-sodomy with all Amazon.com visitors, including children."

One reviewer wrote, "As a pedophile myself, I found this book to be enlightening in my quest to truly come to terms with my own sexuality."

On Amazon's site, readers can connect via e-mail with this particular reviewer, whose e-mail address begins with "minrfiend."

Another reviewer says, "As a boylover, I found this book extremely helpful. But it is not intended for the boylover community: It is meant for the general public who fear the phenomenon of pedosexuality. As such, it sets out to explain in plain language what this phenomenon is about."

"Amazon.com should not be used as a potential 'dating service' for those who would molest children," Ackerman wrote in his letter to Bezos, obtained by WND. "How, exactly, are you going to find peace of mind if one of your child-customers happens to be lured into molestation because of your site?"

Ackerman warns Amazon that it could find itself "in the position of being sued for wrongful death, negligence or other tortious conduct should a molester and child be joined up with each other as a result of your site."

"Even if you are not interested in doing what is morally right in this case, your commercial general liability insurance carrier should view the potential liability as an unacceptable financial risk," he said.

Yesterday, Amazon listed on its main page, under "Quick Picks," several of the titles it recommends to readers interested in Riegel's book. They include "Dream Boy," a story about two adolescent boys and their homosexual relationship, and "Touched," a novel about a molested boy.

Censorship?

A spokesperson for Amazon.com told WorldNetDaily that the company certainly does not endorse "Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers."

"Simply because we sell a book does not mean we agree with the ideas it contains," said Patricia Smith.

"We believe that people have the right to choose their own reading material," she said. "Our goal is to support freedom of expression and to provide customers with the broadest selection possible so they can find, discover, and buy any title they might be seeking."

Smith noted that "that selection includes some titles which most people, including employees of Amazon.com, may find distasteful or otherwise objectionable. However, Amazon.com believes it is censorship to make a book unavailable to our customers because we believe its message to be repugnant."

The Web retailer published a brief review of Riegel's book under the company's name, by editor Christopher Hart, which stated: "Is there such a thing as a legitimate sexual relationship between an adult male and an underage boy? Most civilized people would answer emphatically 'no,' and 'Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers' won't convince them otherwise. Defensive in tone and amateurishly produced, this monograph uses both pseudo-scholarship and anecdotes in its attempt to justify its target audience's actions and feelings."

In 1999, organized protests forced Amazon to drop from its website another book that promoted pedophilia, "Varieties of Man-Boy Love," and customers have lodged complaints about the sale of books on bestiality and incest.

The American Family Association launched a campaign against Amazon's sale of Riegel's book two years ago but got no response.

No law above the law

Riegel said in an introduction that the book, "while certainly bound to be controversial, and which espouses certain changes in various laws, is carefully maintained within the limits of current laws, there is nothing in it which could possibly concern any postal inspector, or which could create any legal liability."

However, Ackerman wrote in his letter to Bezos that Amazon could face legal action under California law, based on the premise that unethical acts can form the basis for liability for unfair business practices.

"Clearly, it is an unethical business practice for you to allow the promotion of child molestation in the manner presently available on your website," Ackerman wrote. "The potentially dangerous nature of your activities gives rise to a valid basis for seeking injunctive relief, and we fully intend on seeking such relief if you do not immediately take action to eliminate the risk to children that your site presently creates. Because protecting children is in the public interest, you may also be held liable for damages under the California Consumer Legal Remedies Act."

Free speech has parameters that would have been understood clearly by the Founding Fathers, insists Scott Lively, head of the Pro-Family Law Center in Citrus Heights, Calif.

In contrast, "today's idea of free speech really assumes there is no law above the law and that any kind of speech is acceptable regardless of the consequence to society," he told WND.

"The current approach to free speech in the United States is the French egalitarian model, that there are no standards by which we measure speech," Lively explained. "My belief is that the Founding Fathers assumed a Judeo-Christian premise in all of the founding documents, and therefore anything that is fundamentally contradictory to the nature of human beings created in the image of God" is not permitted.

Lively believes that the societal barriers against adult-child sex are eroding quickly, following on the heels of the breakdown in social consensus on subjects such as infidelity and homosexuality.

"This is not an anomaly," he said of Riegel's book. "My prediction is we are going to see legalized adult-child sex within three to five years."

He noted that in many states the age of consent has been lowered to 16 years, allowing some teachers who had sex with students to walk away free of prosecution.

"In the Title IX guidelines put out by the federal government on sexual harassment they actually have a policy asking whether or not the sex was consensual, giving discretion to the school district as to whether or not they are going to consider different policies based on whether the teen consented or didn't," Lively said. "So these are all things moving very rapidly in the direction of child sex."

A book released earlier this year that condones adult-child sex is part of a wider effort by some academics to bring pedophilia into the mainstream, according to researcher Judith Reisman.

Judith Levine's "Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex," seeks to challenge "widespread anxieties" about pedophilia, according to a promo.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda
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To: general_re
And we'd almost surely part company insofar as my personal approach to such things is essentially utilitarian, and I suspect yours is not

Somehow, I don't think our founding fathers would have allowed the active promotion of child rape.

41 posted on 09/26/2002 8:35:26 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: Paradox
Bezos..(if he actually ever saw this book before the controversy..you hire people to do the selections)..knows how to walk the fine line between A reputable bookstore and an adult book store..if the authors name had been.."Funboy" Johnson (same content) and not a degreed (?) David L. Riegel it wouldnt be their shelf..Ever notice when you drive by an Adult bookstore there arent any windows on the street side?....Amazon has no windows either!
42 posted on 09/26/2002 8:39:59 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: bewildered
They do.
43 posted on 09/26/2002 8:41:40 AM PDT by billybudd
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To: yendu bwam
If but one boy is sexually molested by Bezos' decision to market this book (a not unlikely scenario), the harm to that boy will rest on Bezos' head.

If but one child is hurt by a firearm..."

That argument has been used since the days of the Spartacus, I'm sure. I think having the book available serves a good purpose, it exposes these creeps to public scrutiny. Just like a good ole Klan or NAZI rally, outs them, so to speak.

44 posted on 09/26/2002 8:42:55 AM PDT by Paradox
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To: yendu bwam
That's faulty logic. Nobody will be made into a pedophile by reading that book. It's only existing pedophiles who will buy the book to morally justify their sick perversions.
45 posted on 09/26/2002 8:43:19 AM PDT by billybudd
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To: goodnesswins
Yes, they do.
46 posted on 09/26/2002 8:45:02 AM PDT by billybudd
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To: yendu bwam
The US Justice Foundation mentioned in this article is threatening legal action to force Amazon to remove this book. That is censorship.
47 posted on 09/26/2002 8:46:09 AM PDT by billybudd
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To: hosepipe
You mean sell it short.
48 posted on 09/26/2002 8:50:41 AM PDT by billybudd
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To: yendu bwam
Yes, incitement of violence should be punished, when the incitement is clear, direct, and specific. Otherwise, you start banning Nietzsche, because, you know, he had a lot to do with promoting moral relativism, which in turn, promoted the suicide terrorists, etc. I don't think you would be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this book will have caused some specific rape, which is the traditional legal standard. That's different from, say, publishing a list of names and addresses of boys and titling it "List of boys you can molest".
49 posted on 09/26/2002 8:56:40 AM PDT by billybudd
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To: billybudd
I don't think you would be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this book will have caused some specific rape, which is the traditional legal standard.

Sure, I understand the legal arguments. But I would note that NAMBLA's writings, similar to what's in this book, specifically led some molesters to molest young boys (by their own testimony). So, it's quite rational to presume that this book will do the same. If there's a record (which there is) of such promotion causing men to sexually molest boys, then reasonable people in a reasonable country, if they cared foremost about the welfare of such boys (which in our country they do not), would use all means to prevent the promotion of such. On the moral plane, Bezos is no better than a sexual molestor himself for marketing the promotion of the sexual molestation of boys. He is likely to be actually responsible for the sexual molestation of boys which would not otherwise have occurred. At the base of it, I believe that when the law (by whatever principle) causes innocent boys to be sexually molested, there is something terribly wrong with the law and the country which writes it.

50 posted on 09/26/2002 9:03:25 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: billybudd
Just happens to be: September 21-18 is Banned Books Week 2002. Read a banned book today! by the Free Speech On Line Ribbon Campaign..

Could it be there was a reason for this article???

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/books/banned-books.html
51 posted on 09/26/2002 9:06:19 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: billybudd
The US Justice Foundation mentioned in this article is threatening legal action to force Amazon to remove this book. That is censorship.

Sure. But censorship is not always wrong. We censor people from yelling 'fire' in a theater. I see nothing wrong with censoring people from yelling 'hey pedophiles - go out and rape some kids, there's nothing wrong with it' in a giant marketplace. At the end of the day, the publishing of this book (and others like it), like the writing of NAMBLA, will likely cause some pedophiles to act on their disgusting urges. Given that censorship of this sort would likely prevent some kids from being sexually molested, I'm all for it.

52 posted on 09/26/2002 9:06:35 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: billybudd
That's faulty logic. Nobody will be made into a pedophile by reading that book. It's only existing pedophiles who will buy the book to morally justify their sick perversions.

No, it's not. Homosexual pedophiles admitted in court that they acted on their urges after reading writings put out on the web by NAMBLA that encouraged them to believe there was nothing wrong in acting on those urges. When you write a book telling homosexual pedophiles that it's fine and dandy to go out and molest boys, some who would not otherwise have acted on their urges will - just like the pedophiliac monsters who read the NAMBLA stuff and then group raped a young boy. In short, this book advocates criminal and morally reprehensible behavior, aimed at young boys. It will likely lead to more such behavior than otherwise. Bezos is a virtual sexual molester himself for allowing the promotion of this book. Wonder what he'll think of himself when some molester in court, after raping a boy, says, well, I bought this book from Amazon.com... Bezos should be ashamed of himself - regardless of the legalities of this.

53 posted on 09/26/2002 9:11:09 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
"US government officials are also now imposing censorship at the reader's end, instead of the writer's. A few years back, Loudoun County, Virginia at one point required all library patrons (whether child to use their filter program to access the Internet, a program that one time blocked Banned Books Online and many other sites. The editor of this page, and other parties, participated in a lawsuit that struck down this policy. An ACLU press release has more details. Despite this decision, in 2000 the US Congress required libraries across the country to filter all of their Internet connections (not just those used by children) or lose assistance for Internet access. The American Library Association is fighting this law, and won a partial victory in 2002, which is now being appealed to the Supreme Court."

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/books/banned-books.html
Convenient time to bring up this book during the Banned Book Week 2002..and the appeal..hmmmmm.
54 posted on 09/26/2002 9:12:39 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: southern rock
may help parents to understand that there may actually be benefits to such relationships.

Yuck! I'm eating lunch here. Yes, I want my 13 year old son (I don't have kids, I'm hypothesizing here) to have sexual relationship with the bald fat hairy weirdo on the corner. Yech! Eeew!

55 posted on 09/26/2002 9:21:35 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: phil1750
Oh no, where am I going to buy my books. You're kidding, right?
56 posted on 09/26/2002 9:22:40 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: yendu bwam
If I owned a bookstore, I certainly wouldn't sell that book. I might even sell Mein Kampf, but no boy-molesting-promotion tool.
57 posted on 09/26/2002 9:25:39 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: billybudd
"You mean sell it short"

Yes....

58 posted on 09/26/2002 9:27:05 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: phil1750
Amazon is a major supporter of Planned Parenthood and a portion of each book sale is donated to them. For this reason, I will never again buy from amazon.

Do you have any evidence of this? I want to be sure if I am going to stop buying from them.

59 posted on 09/26/2002 9:38:48 AM PDT by oc-flyfish
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To: scripter
The nature of the Beast.
60 posted on 09/26/2002 12:46:24 PM PDT by softengine
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