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Flaming probably is not necessary here but, 4 years old? Keep your chin up, you haven't even started your descent into the abyss yet.

Maybe not. But I'm betting that as my daughter grows older, she will require more sophisticated modes of discipline than can be delivered by a smacking hand or a belt strap.

>>Keep your chin up, you haven't even started your descent into the abyss yet.<<

Yeah, once your boy hit's about 14, it's gonna take a 34 0z Lousville Slugger. For the girls, anything used in T-ball will work.

Seriously, people are individuals. Some are little angels thoughout their lives. Unfortunately this usually means they are easily controlled and will never rise above mediocrity.

On the other hand, the kid that is constantly pushing the limits and, yes, REQUIRING the parent to get physical (call it "acute" discipline) often, if kept somewhat civilized (and out of jail), goes on to live a truly extraordinary life. History is full of examples.

BTW, I was joking about the baseball and T-ball implements. A wooden spatula or wide belt worked best for me - and the child was under twelve (Jewish for child). I also agree with statemets from the retired teacher. That is, there needs to be some sort of building up afterwards - making it a clean slate afterwards is the key to it's effectiveness. That is, a spanking brings closure to a "wrong" done by a child. it is amazingly effective in that way. It frees the child of their sin. It is actually an amazingly effective biblical concept.