Posted on 09/23/2002 12:47:24 PM PDT by SLB
CHEYENNE – Spare the rod and spoil the child?
Not so, childhood experts say. Their version: Spare the rod to promote positive, effective discipline and prevent violent behavior by children.
“I really can’t say spanking is ever a good thing to do,” said Sherri Rubeck, who teaches common-sense parenting for Southeast Wyoming Mental Health.
“Spanking is just teaching a child another form of violence,” she said. “Kids are learning that it’s OK to hit. Mom and Dad do it, so it’s OK to hit someone to get what I want.”
Ronn Jeffrey, director of Youth Alternatives, said, “Spanking is something adults do when they can’t think of anything else to do. It’s a form of negative reinforcement. Spanking just proves you’re bigger and stronger.
“It is not usually done out of a great deal of thought about changing a child’s behavior,” he added. “It’s done more out of frustration or anger and has only a temporary effect. With other forms of punishment, you have to think about what you’re doing.”
But single parent Johnny Jones said he believes spanking can be effective in disciplining younger children when used appropriately.
Jones leads a single-parenting group in Cheyenne, in which single and divorced parents meet to help each other cope with parental challenges.
Jones said he thinks it is appropriate to give young children a light slap on the hand or the bottom when they are doing something that could harm them, such as playing with outlets or running into the street.
He also has used a spanking as a backup when two or three attempts at another form of discipline don’t work.
“I don’t have half the problems or concerns (with his children’s behavior) that other parents have who do not now, nor have they ever, spanked their children,” he said. “They have problems at home and school.”
Jones said he does not believe spanking, when used appropriately, contributes to violent behavior in children.
“When I grew up, and before then, spanking was recommended,” he said. “The way children acted then, compared to the behaviors we have now, is completely night and day. We didn’t have the school violence and shootings we do now.
“Alternative forms of discipline don’t always work,” he added. “I believe that contributes to a lot of the problems we have. Look at our society, look at newspapers, what’s happening at school. Talk to a teacher who is about to retire about the differences in behavior (when spanking was used to discipline students) as opposed to students now.”
Laramie County School District 1 Superintendent Dan Stephan said the LCSD1 board revoked corporal punishment, including spanking, in 1984.
“Educationally, that is sound judgment,” he said. “Our board decided clear back then that it was not prudent behavior to use that as punishment. There are other methods to discipline students.
“If we have behavior that is not appropriate by a student, we will work with the parents and the student in regard to what the desired behavior would be … rather than modeling something that is probably less than productive.”
But Dwayne Trembly, who taught math at McCormick Junior High for years before retiring in 1998, agreed with Jones.
When spanking was revoked in the district, “We saw an immediate change with lack of discipline,” he said. “We’ve been struggling ever since.
“Appropriate spanking promotes discipline – with heavy emphasis on appropriate. That is the key word,” he added.
Trembly said what happens after the spanking is more important than the spanking itself.
“When a child needs discipline, it needs to be immediate, then they need a positive build-up afterward. Leave them in a positive state. Never leave them down. If you do that, you lose discipline.”
Jones also urged caution regarding the way spankings are delivered.
“I think (spanking) instills a line of respect in moderation – but I can’t stress enough in moderation,” he said. “Everything does not merit a spanking.
“A spanking should be done with an open hand on the behind, not a slap in the face.
“I don’t believe in using foreign objects, such as belts, switches, spoons and so forth. (With those) you do not know how much force you’re delivering. If you can’t do it with your hand because it’s hurting your hand, imagine how it feels to that child.”
If used inappropriately or excessively, spanking could cause children to become introverted out of fear of being struck, Jones said.
Spanking should decline and eventually end as a child gets older, he said.
“Once they get beyond 10 or 11, that child is pretty much set in their ways,” he said. “They are either going to continue on in their behavior, or they already know the consequences of their behavior.”
As children approach their teenage years, other deterrents, such as taking away television or computer privileges, work better, Jones said.
“My daughter has told me several times that she wished I would spank her as opposed to taking away her telephone,” he said.
Jeffrey said he understands that some parents feel the need to use spanking as a form of punishment.
“I’m not going to condemn every parent who has ever spanked a child,” he said. “A parent who believes in spanking is not a terrible person.
“Was I spanked? Yeah. Were most of us? Probably. But I will tell you it should be the last line of discipline. The hand should be used, and it should be on the bottom. It should never be done with any object.”
Jeffrey referred to last week’s televised videotape of a young woman who put her daughter in a van and began spanking her. The spankings quickly escalated to what appeared to be a brutal beating.
“That is an indication that the person doing the spanking is usually out of control,” he said.
Jeffrey cited other problems with using spanking as a primary disciplinary measure.
“If you use physical ways of controlling your children, what happens when your kid gets bigger than you? If that’s the only method you’ve developed to control their behavior, you’re kind of in bad shape.”
Rubeck said parents need to retrain themselves to use more positive ways to discipline their children. That can be accomplished by taking a parenting class or reading good how-to books on changing children’s behavior.
Some good disciplinary methods include time-out, praising children when they do something good and revoking privileges as a consequence of bad behavior, Rubeck said.
When working with children, parents need to give “kid reasons” as incentive to behave, she added.
“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’”
It also is helpful to involve the children in the process when deciding what their punishment should be.
“If you let the child set the consequences, they’ll usually make the punishment worse than that parent would. Maybe that’s an indication that we need to be nicer, if they feel they’re deserving of such terrible punishment.”
And believe it or not, most people say that I look like I'm still in my 30's and too young to have 4 teens, so raising these kids hasn't been a hardship.
Time for me to go. Bye!
Conversely the "Greatest Generation" (they mostly did SPARE THE ROD) is responsible for the 'flower child generation'. They planted the seed for the Dr. FeelGood, do your own thing, do gooders that followed Dr. Spock et al religiously producing what we see today as the PC world gone amouk.
Of course this is just this one man's opinion, I could be wrong!!
If that doesn't bring the kid around to your way of thinking (about the behavior under review) then leave him/her for awhile to reconsider. That gives you time to make sure your anger is under control. Then when you return to the room, if s/he is still being stubborn, you apply another series of age appropriate rod-blows. (Again, maybe one for a 1 year old, up to 10 for an older teen.)
Keep this up until s/he repents. Never in anger, never more than a few rod-blows at a time. The rod will never leave a physical injury. But deep down, the rod works on the child in a way that God designed into everyone of us.
This method will defeat rebellion. Some stubborn, strong-willed children will need more, longer sessions than others, but in the end (yeah, I know) it will work. It breaks the child's will to rebel, but it doesn't break the child's spirit.
Remember, the boy or girl has offended you, the parent, and s/he knows it. S/he needs, and craves, to be corrected, but s/he also needs to be forgiven for the offense.
To correct with the rod, or to punish, without forgiving afterward, leaves a more rebellious and angry child than you had before.
The question of spank or not to spank is on the same level of the philisophical right and wrong. Today foolish people believe in relativism and do not believe in aboslutes and right and wrong. On different levels these are the majority of people that want a law to prevent any freedom and control and restrict all human behavior. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't speed, don't eat meat, don't own a gun, don't show God in any form in public!
Spanking is not punishment as much as it is deterrent. It is an action ment to convey to an individual that certain behavior is not acceptable and will result in a negative feedback. Children under the age of reason react to pleasure and pain. Food, shelter, warmth, comfort, and all their physical needs are the primary things on their minds. You can not reason with a 4 year old as to why an electric fan or a hot iron is not something to play with. You could let them injure themselves and discover it for themselves, but that is not parenting. They will remember the small discomfort of a gentle or forceful slap on the butt as a reminder they have over stepped the boundary or attempted something unsafe and will think twice before doing it again. They are not smart enough to be reasoned with nor can a stern look always accomplish what a spanking will. If they are stuborn or stupid they will try again and that is personality at play and eventauly as they get older it is good and evil at play. Yes, in some instances there are just plain evil people in the world that no amount of spanking, discipline, deterrence, will ever help. If they have no conscious or ability to understand or accept right from wrong and are phsycopathic than there is no cure.
There is a reason the Old Testament says to spare the rod will spoil the child. It is the fact that children never provided with the instruction of deterrence end up learning this lesson to late in life with more devestating results. That there are limits to socially accepted behavior, actions for public safety, and moral judgments.
Do all people have to spank? No, not if you are blessed with an intelligent angle or a child that never takes a risk or hardly explores their world or probes any of their limitations or limits. You are lucky. I was lucky and have two beautiful, loving, and charming young ladies for daughters. They learned to respect my voice and only once or twice when they were preschool age did I ever have to spank them and never again for the same reason. They learned the limits and they learned that I was consistant, loving, attentive, and looking out for their welfare and the families welfare and that my wife and I set the limits for acceptable behavior or acceptable exploration of life. They are go getters and not afraid of life and respect others. They are better than me and my wife in many ways. Not all people are the same. So don't tell me spanking is never allowed. Don't use the words always and never because these can only be applied by God who is perfect and only mimicked by the government which is always imperfect but thinks it is god.
They are using "discipline" in the verb tense. That gives more weight to their side.
RE: Sarasota, FL. a Downtown "Noise" Oridnance stops restaurants from featuring music outside at certain venues.
See? They defined the terms of the argument because it certainly isn't a "music" ordinance.
Kids have other friends. They don't have other parents.
Personally, if I had a daughter, she would have been the most spoiled thing in the world, because I could not only not spank a little girl, I could not even say no to one. My wife informs me, that is why we have boys.
Had no trouble spanking them. Never had to spank any after six years old. They have thanked me for the descipline, especially when they see what has happened to freinds whose parents were too "soft-hearted" to spank.
I know a family that had one boy and one girl. The boy was extremely easy going, pleasant little fellow. He just never disobeyed. Never got spanked. Never neeeded it. Now owns his own business, and takes all the neighborhood kids to the movies on weekends.
Now the girl. Lovely little thing, but stubborn, willful, and defiant. She got a few spanks. She's is now a very successful business woman, but had a few bumps in her teenage years.
Every child and every parent is different. There are absolutely no single rules that will fit every situation. Most parents are very stupid, do all the worng things, have terrible kids, and still, most turn out alright. Of course, this assume there are two parents and they at least try to do the right thing, and are able to shield them from the influence of the public schools.
Hank
Our next 2 boys, we never bribed or negotiated anything. The law was set and that was that. They are much more well adjusted and happy. After about 4 years old, we never ever had to spank them anymore.
I had a sister in law who always used bribery, and I really thought it was wrong. I was spanked as a child, and the schools spanked too. It was an effective deterrent. and we respected all adults.
my six-year old doesn't need a "kid reason." he would care if i were tired... at six years, he does not believe the world revolves around him... he's not so enthralled in just himself...
Do any of you realize how hard it is to type w/a bandaid on your finger? LOL
I have several kids, what works with one doesn't necessarily work the others. But one thing that is certain is that the children must know that the parent is the one in charge. There is definitely a huge difference between behaviors of my generation and the present ones and that being said there is certainly a reason for it.
Spanking is one part of teaching a child discipline, but not the whole. You need to talk to them, guide them, watch them and try to help them avoid trouble in the first place. Most of all you need to guide by example.
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