Women Believed to be members of Irish Travelers (Woman Taped Beating Child an "Irish Gypsy")

Some local authorities will not refer to Madelyn Gorman/Toogood and Margaret Daley as 'Travelers' but a local expert on Travelers says from the video he's seen, he believes the women are Irish Travelers. There are an estimated 12,000 to 20,000 Irish Travelers in the United States, mostly in South Carolina and Texas. This is where it is believed Gorman and her family is from.

Travelers live a nomadic lifestyle, moving from town to town in large groups to do seasonal work but they've also been labeled, by some, as scam artists. Most Irish Travelers in this country are descendents of 19th century Irish immigrants. They are also known as Irish gypsies or "tinkers".

Elkhart resident Don Wright has been investigating the Travelers for 24 years. He's published books including one called 'Scam!'. Wright says many of these scams take place in our own backyard. Between April and October, there are between 15 to 20 families in the Michiana area running these scams. When Wright saw the Kohl's parking lot assault video, he knew this was more than just a case of child abuse.

After seeing the video, Traveler expert Don Wright says he called police and other Travelers and came to this conclusion. "I started making calls right away and found out, yes indeed, they were Irish Travelers."

Wright believes the beating happened for one of two reasons. "The little girl gave away the scam to an employee or the mom was so ticked off at not getting refunds she took it out on the little girl. As far as beating a kid like this, I've never heard of it."

Wright has heard of Travelers working in the Michiana area. He says certain things in the video lend him to believe these women are Travelers. "The fact that the license plate was from Texas - I knew who they were."

Wright wrote about Travelers who travel from Fort Worth, Texas to Indiana in his 1996 book called 'Scam!' "A majority of the Travelers come to Elkhart a few times a year to pick up travel trailers they use for different scams." Wright says the trailer is a scam in and of itself. They live in it until they can sell it for an exorbitant price. Meanwhile, men of the Travelers do house scams and the women do shoplifting scams. Wright says it is common to take along their children. "This is on the job training for kids. They learn to shoplift at their mothers elbows."

Prosecutor Chris Toth said today that the reason Kohl's began to follow these two women and their daughters was because they had scammed the store before. Police in Fort Worth say in March they arrested Madelyn Gorman for an alleged theft at Kohls.

I believe these are the same people who tried to scam Disney a few years back with an elaborate hotel rape/civil lawsuit scam. A woman got her compatriots to beat the living h$ll out of her, and then have sex with her, and they in return sued Disney for lax security at their hotel. From what I recall, it almost worked, save for some savvy detective work by the Orlando Police Dept.

So that's how you get to these unbelievably canny criminals--just take one of their kids. Brutal--but effective.

That is how social workers destroyed Indian tribes by snatching their children to the boarding schools - to abuse them, to make them forget their culture and to make them indolent dependents of the state. Wrecking Gypsy families could be effective in changing them into main stream criminals, without exotic folkore, pride or memories.

More irony: gypsies, a group with definite links to "Irish Travellers", are thought in folklore to "steal children." Now DHR, the monarchs of the child-snatchers, has snatched one of theirs!

Or rather it is not irony - the servants of the growing state do not suffer competition from people who stay outside of the system.

We can see Gypsies as the canaries in the coal mine. Can freedom survive in the world of the everywhere present cameras?

I am thinking, wondering which is the greater threat to me as an individual--Gypsies, or DHR. DHR, the Almighty State, wins hands down.

The defense against these two threatening things is the same, though: obscurity. I actually treasure it.

Sure, I know fame must be exhilarating. But I bet a lot of famous people would trade everything they have just to recover the greatest defense nature ever gave them: obscurity.

To take a line from "Fiddler On The Roof": "May God bless and keep the Czar.............far away from us!!"

I knew plenty of kids who were beaten by their parents (usually with a belt), and I didn't get out of grade school until after 1970s.

I'm a little suprised there haven't been more posts about encounters with "gypsies" in the U.S. I'm a little reluctant to attribute the group to any common ethnic origin,because there are probably several.

I remember being in line at a Morrison's cafeteria in Florida about ten years ago when a group of them tried to scrounge a free lunch. While I was paying the cashier, some came back and said they were returning their plate for something different, one walked away with two plates and another said she wanted her money back. It was all designed to confuse.

Also, I remember from another incident in Europe longer ago than that when a friend of mine lost her passport to the Gypsies. The kids were used in the scam. They would hold a newspaper and beg for change. If you went to your purse and pulled money out, the kids would hold the newspaper over your purse and grab whatever was inside. This little girl was five or six years old. They are trained young!

Interesting, the incidents you describe.

I was in Amsterdam once, as a tourist, by myself.

I have no idea if Gypsies are connected with this incident, but what happened was that a group of about 10 children came up and surrounded me. (I carried my money and valuables in a money belt.) Then one or two of them put their hand out. They just basically kept kind of dancing around me, not hurting me, but talking--none of them were speaking in English, so I didn't know what they were saying.

I said, in English, "go away." Then I heard one of the older ones say a few words in English. I called the oldest-appearing one to my side, and said: "tell your friends, in whatever language they speak, that if you and they don't leave me alone, I am going to hurt one or all of you."

Believe it or not, the kid (who looked to be about 13) actually looked scared. The whole flock kind of drifted away.

They didn't get anything off me that day! Whether or not they were Gypsies, I do believe they were trying to somehow separate me from some or all of my valuables.

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