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Do state trump Bill of Rights on firearms?
WorldNetDaily ^

Posted on 09/20/2002 6:31:53 AM PDT by The Unnamed Chick

The right of individuals to keep and bear arms may have some validity on the federal level, but states have a right to regulate and ban firearm ownership among the people, says California Attorney General Bill Lockyer.

In a letter sent earlier this month to David Codrea, co-founder of Citizens of America, a California-based gun-rights organization, Lockyer said that while his duty is to enforce the laws of his state and the nation, "the responsibilities of my office do not permit me to independently interpret the state and federal Constitutions or the statutes written pursuant to those Constitutions."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29009

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: banglist
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To: Viva Le Dissention
The rights in the Bill of Rights are natural rights common to all people. States are only allowed to work on stuff not enumerated in the Bill of Rights. "Shall Not Be Infringed" means just that and it means it for everyone including states.
41 posted on 09/20/2002 7:15:12 AM PDT by Flint
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To: apillar
If you follow the premise that states can regulate firearms because it is only a "federal" constitutional right then on the same token state could ban religon, free speech, reinstitute slavery etc.

Not exactly...the 2nd Amendment refers to the rights of the people, and say that it shall not be infringed. The 1st Amendment says "Congress shall make no law".

As for the earlier traffic court argument, as far as I am aware, jury trial still applies in criminal court cases, but not civil court cases - and the 6th Amendment specifies criminal trials.

42 posted on 09/20/2002 7:17:01 AM PDT by lepton
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To: Viva Le Dissention
Funny, show me the Supreme Court decision that incorporates the 2nd Amendment.

The supreme court can incorporate my butt for all I care. UNALIENABLE rights (both enumerated and unenumerated) of the individual are valid on every square inch of U.S. soil.

43 posted on 09/20/2002 7:17:12 AM PDT by southern rock
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To: Flint
Look, I'm going to say this once more and that'll be that. I don't care what your personal opinion is, I don't care about the way it should be, I don't care about the way things ARE if you read the constitution.

The only opinion that matters is the Supreme Court of the United States. It and it alone interprets what the Constitution says. They cannot be wrong. They are infalliable. The Supreme Court has spoken loud and clear on this subject.

You may not like it, but that's the way it is.
44 posted on 09/20/2002 7:18:55 AM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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To: lepton
see 7th amendment.
45 posted on 09/20/2002 7:20:12 AM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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To: Viva Le Dissention
The only opinion that matters is the Supreme Court of the United States. It and it alone interprets what the Constitution says. They cannot be wrong. They are infalliable.

The SC is wrong and fallable each and every time they legislate from the bench and/or rule contrany to the constitution and BOR. Period.

46 posted on 09/20/2002 7:21:19 AM PDT by southern rock
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To: southern rock
Well, when your ass is in jail for a gun charge, try that argument on the judge.
47 posted on 09/20/2002 7:22:23 AM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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To: southern rock
Oh, really? They are falliable, huh? Who decides that?
48 posted on 09/20/2002 7:23:27 AM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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To: Viva Le Dissention
By the way, I spent about 5 minutes looking for the most recent case on this subject, and here's the most recent decision on point. Cert. denied by the Supreme Court.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/quilici_v_morton_grove.txt
49 posted on 09/20/2002 7:30:38 AM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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To: Viva Le Dissention
The only opinion that matters is the Supreme Court of the United States. It and it alone interprets what the Constitution says. They cannot be wrong. They are infalliable. The Supreme Court has spoken loud and clear on this subject.

You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Here, let me re-word that for you.
The only opinion that matters is the King's. He and he alone interprets what the Law says. He cannot be wrong. He is infalliable. The Kinghas spoken loud and clear on this subject.

You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Substitute Der Fuehrer, Secretary General or anyone else in there. I hope you understand my point. In the end, the opinion that counts is the people's, just like the Declaration of Independence points out so eloquently ... and the people MUST stay armed to retain that ultimate power. It is clearly what was intended by those who founded the nation under inspiration from Almighty God IMHO.

On this issue, these people are treading into dangerous territory and its time to stand up and say to their face that this is the case. They will push it to a civil war if they continue.

I don't want that. I don't seek that. I try to do everything I can to avoid anything like that. But that is where it is being pushed and they need to understand it IMHO ... particularly when statements as blatant and direct as this are touted about.

50 posted on 09/20/2002 7:30:53 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Viva Le Dissention
The Supreme Court has not "incorporated" the 2nd amendment to apply to the states, as it has the 1st, 4th, 5th, parts of the 6th and 7th, etc.

Let's walk through some simple reasoning: The 2nd amendment is a part of the Constitution of the Unites States. Article VI, Clause 2 of the Constitution states: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

I reread the Constitution, including the amendments which are a part of it, and can't find anywhere that suggests the Supremacy Clause only applies to parts of the Constitution that judges declare it to. Thus, "This Constitution... shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

What part of that does the CA attorney general not understand?

51 posted on 09/20/2002 7:31:06 AM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Viva Le Dissention
They cannot be wrong. They are infalliable.

Was this also true when they passed down the Dred Scott decision? The Supreme Court also has been known to reverse itself from time to time.

They are the final arbiters on the constitutionality of laws, but it's just a bit of a stretch to say that they cannot be wrong.

52 posted on 09/20/2002 7:31:13 AM PDT by jpl
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To: Viva Le Dissention
Well, when your ass is in jail for a gun charge, try that argument on the judge.

The fact that people are persecuted for exercising their inalienable rights doesn't make it right.

53 posted on 09/20/2002 7:31:41 AM PDT by southern rock
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To: The Unnamed Chick
The right of individuals to keep and bear arms may have some validity on the federal level, but states have a right to regulate and ban firearm ownership among the people, says California Attorney General Bill Lockyer.

Can we apply that same logic to the Roe v. Wade and the alledged 'right to an abortion'.

54 posted on 09/20/2002 7:33:26 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Viva Le Dissention
Oh, really? They are falliable, huh? Who decides that?

God, the founding fathers, the constitution, the BOR... shall I go on? The SC are bound by the constitution. That are wrong every time they rule outside of it.

55 posted on 09/20/2002 7:33:36 AM PDT by southern rock
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To: Jeff Head
Hey, you're making a philosophical argument that I don't entirely disagree with. However, the law doesn't operate philosophically. You've got to play the hand you're dealt. In this case, it's that gun ownership can be infringed by the states. I don't like it, but it is the way it is.
56 posted on 09/20/2002 7:34:39 AM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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To: Viva Le Dissention
I spent about 5 minutes looking for the most recent case on this subject, and here's the most recent decision on point. Cert. denied by the Supreme Court.

You are obviously a lawyer. I suggest you get your head out of the minuta of the hundreds of thousands of activist, socialist, collectivist, unconstitutional, liberty violating laws and court decisions that are on the books, and get back to fundamentals. Please read the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the BOR, and learn a little about the concept of INALIENABLE rights.

57 posted on 09/20/2002 7:37:25 AM PDT by southern rock
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To: southern rock
The SC are bound by the constitution. That are wrong every time they rule outside of it.

The Court decides what the Constitution means. By definition, they can't rule outside of it.

As far as overruled decisions go, they weren't wrong when they were made; the scope of the Constitution changed.

You might not like that argument, but it's true. By definition, the Supreme Court decides what the Constitution means. Incidentally, why does the Court have the power of judical review? Because it says it does--you can't find the power of judicial review in the Constitution; it's not there. They have power because they say they do. If you want a more compelling case for infallibility, look no further.

58 posted on 09/20/2002 7:38:16 AM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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To: Viva Le Dissention
No, no, this man is absolutely correct. The US Constitution provides no protection against state infringement of the 2nd Amendment.

Wrong.

"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." -- Excerpt, Amendment XIV, U.S. Constitution.

59 posted on 09/20/2002 7:38:45 AM PDT by Sloth
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To: Viva Le Dissention
7th addresses lawsuits. What are you trying to say here?
60 posted on 09/20/2002 7:39:00 AM PDT by lepton
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