The tower 'jumpers' were murdered

The Irish Independent ^ | September 8, 2002 | Declan McCormack

[Prodigal Son]

In effect they did not jump. They were pushed. Homicide.

That's from the article. I see it the same way you do and even after re-reading it, I couldn't find anything in the article to complain about. It is overwhelmingly obvious he is saying they were murdered- it's almost as if the author is wanting to remind us not to start slipping up and thinking of them as suicides- because they weren't, they were killed. Perhaps he overheard an aquaintance call them suicides and after straightening them out on the spot he decided to write an article reminding people that those individuals on 9/11 didn't commit suicide.

Some people I think are just really charged up in a forum like this to find fault with an article and they do so after the first two sentences and ignore what the writer is trying to really say... Just my humble opinion.

[Prodigal Son]

Good article, thanks for posting it.

[livius]

Thanks for posting, aculeus. I read yesterday that all of these people have been classified by the coroner as homicides, which is exactly what they were. I thought the writer of the article was simply supporting this decision and offering some description for people who might not have seen it or might not have been aware of the great numbers of people who died by falling hundreds of feet onto the plaza.

Never forget, yes; but most important, never let it happen again!

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Please don't take it out on the writer. This is painful history. This haunts me. I mull the paradox over, not a week passes that I don't, and always conclude that God understands. One thing is clear when I think about it: KILL THOSE BASTARDS!!!!!!

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

...a huge city that had obviously been nuked. But it was one of OUR OWN...

It could happen. We must pray. We must seek. And we must destroy.

[Freedom4US]

I was at a parking garage a month back here the midwest. It was 7 stories. I looked out at the ground from the 6th floor. I got dizzy, it's a lot higher than one might think. And then I thought of the poor souls at the 96th floor at the WTC. I got mad. I was mad 11 Sept, and I'm still mad.

When will these murders be avenged 10 times over? I'm still waiting.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Perhaps he overheard an aquaintance call them suicides and after straightening them out on the spot he decided to write an article reminding people that those individuals on 9/11 didn't commit suicide.

Good point. The writer made me admire some of the vicims in fact. It was well written, and well thought out. The problem is, this is a highly emotional memory, and some people are going to snap when they are reminded of it. That is why I like to focus on the enemy. Wasted energy to bite the heads off your own side, like the critics of this article.

But like I said, everyone has buttons that make them go haywire. Not surprising that this is one of them.

Sad Freegards....

[VOA]

We are a country of great restraint.

Here we are at one year on.
Unless there's been a news embargo, I don't think we've heard of some 9-11 victim's survivor,
friends or families walking into a busy Middle-Eastern store, a mosque or restaurant
in an American city and just emptying as many clips as possible before stopped
by the police or authorities.

In just about any country outside of the USA, CAnada, and maybe Western Europe,
a 9-11 event would have set off lots of "blood revenge" killings.

The Muslims/Arabs in this country should thank their lucky stars to be living amongst
generally peaceable folks, mostly imbued with a slow-to-anger Judeo-Christian
cultural background...or at least just plain good, civilized manners.

[EggsAckley]

In just about any country outside of the USA, CAnada, and maybe Western Europe, a 9-11 event would have set off lots of "blood revenge" killings.

Positivitely! And we've given the Arabs every opportunity to learn that. We've been showing them our vulnerabilities for years.

[pops88]

Most people in America never wanted to see the pictures of the trapped people and non-jumpers.

I beg to differ. It's the media that has decided not to show these pictures and it's to everyone's detriment.

[VOA]

It's the media that has decided not to show these pictures and it's to everyone's detriment.

That was a big point in the USA Today article on page 5A of Tuesday Sept. 3, 2002.

USA Today said most magazines and newspapers published one or none of the photos;
I think they said that USA Today published only one, sometime in November of 2001.

I can understand the sensitivity for the survivors and friends of victims.
I'm in favor of the publications of the photos to short-circuit any attempt to
do any revisionism of the history of what happened.

I don't care if it's one of the most documented events in history...some historian or
politician WILL try to re-write the history.

[cactusSharp]

those who jumped were MURDERED
when in deaths grip and anger
who knows what dilusional
trigger the mind encounters
given a burn at 1400 degrees
or escaping to cooler air
like a window.....no the body
and mind lose rationality,therefore
is in a survival mode only....they
were murdered...some 1400 fet up
some at ground (zero) level.

[VOA]

Another thing about the USA Today article:

It actually told us how MANY people probably took the fall: around 200 total.
USA Today did the research and the authorities said that was probably a good estimate.

I suspect few Americans had any clear idea of how many people took this rational alternative
to being burned alive.

But what chills me is the idea of the 10 or 11 seconds to the ground.
That's a long time being conscious and knowing what the end result must be.

G-d rest all their souls and those of their friends and family.

[mware]

I hope that you all will forgive me for writing this but ever sense I read this exerpt from, September 11: An Oral History, I have been tormented with its memory.

Perhaps if I share it with others the memory will be easier to handle.

It is the oral history of Ernest Armstead entitled,Tormented by conversions with death. He was an EMT, at Ground Zero.

".....I ran towards them, my triage tags in hand. There was a man having a seizure and his eyes were rolling into the back of his head. He had struck the pavement so hard that there was virturally nothing else left of him. There were a couple others that I never got to, but I could see from a short distance that they were dead. And then there was the lady with the nice hairdo and earrings.

When I got to her, I ripped out a black tag. What impressed me - and scared me - was that she was alert and was watching what I was doing. I put the tag around her neck and she looked at me and said, "I am not dead. Call my daughter. I am not dead." I was so startled that for a split second I was speechless. "Ma'am," I said. "don't worry about it, We will be right back for you." That was a lie. She couldn't see what I could see. Somehow, I guess it was an air draft or something, her fall had been cushioned enought so that she didn't splatter like the others. Still her body was so twisted and torn apart that I could only ask myself, Why is this lady still alive and talking to me? How can this be? Her right lung, shoulder and head were intacted, but from the diaphragm down she was unrecognizable. Yet she was lucid enough that she continued to argue with me."I am not dead," she insisted again.

....but another wave of casualties arrived in the lobby from upstairs, so I needed to return. As I headed back, I stepped over the lady one more time. And as eerie and unsettling as our first encounter had been, the second was even worse. She yelled at me.

"I am not dead! I am not dead!"

"They're coming, they're coming." I replied without stopping.

"I am not dead! I am not dead!"

[seeker41]

I'm sick to my stomach, Kill those B@stards, all of them.

[Ditter]

>.everyones detriment *not* to see the pictures? I heard about the people jumping first. I did see them once or twice & that was more than enough. I don't need to see them anymore, I don't want to see them any more. Is it because I want to forget them? I will *never* forget them, like the pictures of the holocaust, they are burned into my brain. I just want to see pictures of what we do about it now.

[PLMerite]

I've heard of things like this happening in other situations. One of the many reasons I could not be an EMT.

I hope her end was peaceful.

We must teach the animals that did this to never EVER think of rearing up on their hind legs to us again.

[Ima Lurker]

Because we are stupid and we are weak!! I am really pi$$ed that we are only playing games at this point!

[Prodigal Son]

But like I said, everyone has buttons that make them go haywire. Not surprising that this is one of them.

Agreed.

I have reoccuring nightmares now because of that. I've always been a very vivid dreamer- I sometimes read entire magazines in my sleep- even catch spelling errors ;-). At any rate, sometimes I'm on top of an unspecified tall building. Sometimes I'm on top of the Eiffel Tower (I lived in Paris for some months, long enough to get the details of it burned into my head) and other times I'm on top of the WTC (sometimes a mammoth newer version). Always, there's something I'm trying to get away from or I need to hide or people are coming to kill me. Usually, I'm a bit more macho in combatant type nightmares but for some reason on top of these tall structures I only feel helpless. I always have to get very close to the edge to get away or hide and I'm very afraid I will slip off the edge and fall but the need to get away or hide is usually overwhelming. I usually wake up just as I'm on the edge looking down- the ground seems like it's a couple of miles down...

I've never been afraid of heights. I've done a tandem skydive and was not in any way afraid on the plane before or during the freefall. I thought it was a big rush. I've always been a climber too- ever since I was a kid.

The part of 9/11 regarding the people falling that affected me the worst was this one guy actually tried to shinny down the side of the WTC. I saw footage of that. The outside of the WTC was "ribbed". He clamped onto it and started going down it the same way I've climbed many a coconut tree. He made it a fair little way too- enough that you were actually starting to hope the guy might make it to a lower floor with an open window and then he either lost the strength to stay clamped onto the rib or his grip slipped... I felt really, really badly for him- maybe because he didn't give up and jump. He tried to make it and took an incredibly risky course of action. I picture myself trying something like that- maybe that's why it bothers me so much and maybe that's why I have these creepy dreams.

Damn the bastards that did that.

[Prodigal Son]

"I am not dead! I am not dead!"

Jesus...