THOMAS JEFFERSON ON CHRISTIANITY & RELIGION

nonbeliefs.com ^ | Jim Walker

[CyberCowboy777]

Thank you for posting that.

Coral Ridge is one of the few ministries I support.

[moteineye]

Thanks for supporting them. I support the ACLJ also. I am sure you are familiar with this organization.The ACLJ has defended many Christian rights battered by the ACLU.The thugish ACLU tries to rule through the courts instead of the legislature. Our founding fathers never meant the courts to have the power they have.

[Texas_Jarhead]

ACLJ BUMP

[exodus]

That was wonderful, moteineye.

You've provided me with a great history lesson, and an enormous increase in my arsenal of facts.

Thank you.

[Looking for Diogenes]

Only about 60% of the population of Israel is Jewish...

According to the CIA Factbook, Israel is 80% Jewish.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

[Looking for Diogenes]

In 1954 the US Supreme Court created the "Wall of Seperation"

You've got the date wrong. The Supreme Court has relied on the Danbury Baptist letter since 1878, less than 90 years after the First Amendment passed. It has been the interpretation for 134 years now.

During the 1870's, the US Supreme Court, the ultimate arbiter of the Constitution, utilized the phrase "separation of church and state" in the case of Reynolds v. United States (1878). In Reynolds, the Supreme Court upheld the application of a federal law, making bigamy a crime in the territories, to a Mormon claiming polygamy was his religious duty.

The Court's opinion stated: " I contemplate with .reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, 'thus building a wall of separation between church and state." The Court further stated that Jefferson's term 'wall of separation between church and state' may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment."

http://www.ifas.org/fw/0003/wrong.html

[moteineye]

What's the publish date? Of course,we know the CIA is on top of everything.

[Looking for Diogenes]

"In general, information available as of 1 January 2001 was used in the preparation of The World Factbook 2001."

[moteineye]

Actually I did check it out but not on the CIA page and I found the percentage of Jews in Israel to be somewhere between 78-80% on different sites. Someone had told me the 60% and I should have checked it out.
Never the less The percentage of Christians in America was 85% in 2000. It nay be less now because of our immigration policies. The point stands. Israel is called a Jewish nation and they have a smaller percentage of Jews(78-80%)than we have Christians in this country(85%).Yet a lot of people don't want to admit we are a Christian nation.Israel is called a Jewish nation and we are a Christian Nation. The Supreme court took on this issue in the 1800's and I am not sure for how long but I believe they debated the issue for a few years. They did say,"indeed America is a Christian nation".I could pull that case up if need
for stats,
be.http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_christian.html

[Looking for Diogenes]

" Israel's total population in 2002 is 6.5 million people....The sub-division is 81% Jews, 19% Arabs or Muslims .... "

Jewish Post http://www.jewishpost.com/jp0807/jpn0807q.htm

[Looking for Diogenes]

Israel is called a Jewish nation and they have a smaller percentage of Jews(78-80%)than we have Christians in this country(85%).Yet a lot of people don't want to admit we are a Christian nation.Israel is called a Jewish nation and we are a Christian Nation.

The differnce is not demographics, but intent. We were founded not as a haven for a particular religion (as Israel was), but as a haven for freedom, including freedom of religion. According to the Constitution, the Episcopalian has the same rights as the Catholic and the Hindu, regardless of which is in the majority at the time.

[j_tull]

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just..."
--Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227

[Looking for Diogenes]

Fact: when TJ was appointed president of the Washington, DC school system, he installed a copy of Isaac Watt's hymnal and the Bible as the two primary reading texts.

This is not a fact. It has been refuted. Bibles were introduced in W.D.C. schools three years after Jefferson left on the basis of a then-popular educational system. David Barton, the author who promoted this idea, has written a press release acknowledging this and other errors.

[Looking for Diogenes]

"...America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.” (Around 1840) by Alexis de Tocqueville, author of Democracy in America, a book which was assigned to the entire Republican freshman class of the 104th congress.

That is a lovely phrase, only there is no evidence that de Tocqueville ever wrote it. Do you have a source?

[Russell Scott]

Organized religion often has nothing to do with Christianity. Christianity at its core is a one on one relationship between God and the individual who accepts the atoning work of Christ through His death, burial, and ressurection, and then walks by His Spirit, using the Bible as his primary instruction book. The individual is supreme, not a group. Almost all theologies in this world are based on group think, not the individual, except Christianity. Thats why life is so cheap in many countries. Its also why I don't like big churches with large congregations. It often leads to group think.

[hoosierskypilot]

No. You got that error off a left-wing web page. (Separation of church and state home page)

[Looking for Diogenes]

Fact: when TJ was appointed president of the Washington, DC school system, he installed a copy of Isaac Watt's hymnal and the Bible as the two primary reading texts.

What is the proof for this fact?

[exodus]

"...America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.” (Around 1840) by Alexis de Tocqueville, author of Democracy in America..."

To: hoosierskypilot
That is a lovely phrase, only there is no evidence that de Tocqueville ever wrote it. Do you have a source?
# 74 by Looking for Diogenes

*************************

I haven't actually read it, but I understood that quote to be inside de Tocqueville's book, "Democracy in America."

I've heard that quote attributed to his book several times.

[Looking for Diogenes]

I haven't actually read it, but I understood that quote to be inside de Tocqueville's book, "Democracy in America." I've heard that quote attributed to his book several times.

Repetition does not make something true. It makes what Goebbels called a 'big lie.'

Here is the complete text of 'Democracy in America' in two volumes. It is easy to do a computer search for the phrase. My search came up empty. Let us know if you have better luck.

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=815

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=816

[hoosierskypilot]

Fact: Thomas Jefferson was president of the DC school system during time in question.

Fact: DC school system used Bible and Isaac Watt's hymnal as their primary reading texts during this time.

Fact: The president of the school system had final say concerning texts used in public schools.

Fact: The above facts are history.

What do you think?