Freep KMart on exit-door search policy

[Sparqi]

Recently I was stopped on my way out of KMart by an employee asking to see my receipt and contents of my bags. I asked if I was suspected of doing something illegal to which he replied, "No, it's just our policy to match purchases against your receipt." I told him that unless he had reasonable cause to believe that I'd done something illegal there was no way I was going to let him inspect either one. To his credit, he did not press the issue and allowed me to leave.

The practice of door-checking seems to have started at either Fry's Electronics in California or perhaps at PriceClub/Costco. In the latter case they can enforce the inspection policy because there is actually a clause in the Costco membership agreement which specifically states that a condition of membership is granting them the right to inspect as you leave. (This is why I don't have a Costco membership.) Fry's has been doing inspections for some time, giving rise to the perjorative term "Door-Nazis". Many people such as myself simply walk by the checkpoint and refuse to stop, since Fry's is not a membership store. Essentially they take advantage of your good nature and ask you to voluntarily waive your freedom (and your dignity) to help them control their shrinkage.

Until recently the Fry's policy was really a local issue, confined to California and some western states; so I never really pursued any activism against them...aside from personally advocating to other people that the practice was an insult and explaining that while Fry's can of course *request* that you stop and allow inspection that they cannot *force* you to stop if they don't have probable cause. Now that KMart is doing this, I think it's national enough to warrant a Freep. Here's what I'm proposing:

1. Make it a point to not be cowed into consenting to the search. If they ask to inspect your purchases, ask them if they suspect you of doing anything illegal. This establishes that they do or don't have cause to stop you. Remember; once you've paid for your purchases and they've accepted the payment, you are carrying personal property and they have cannot search you unless they have probable cause such as evidence of shoplifting.

2. If they admit that they don't have cause, tell them you don't consent to being searched and leave. If they press the issue, remind them that the Fourth Amendment guarantees your right against illegal searches. (Sometimes this is hard to explain, because the checker is not an American citizen.) If they try to restrain you, don't fight them or put up a physical struggle. Ask to speak to the most senior manager of the store immediately. Point out to him or her the illegality of the situation and ask if they're prepared to defend their actions in a court of law.

3. Instruct your friends/family/co-workers on the issue. Make sure they understand that what KMart is doing is an insult and a violation of their basic rights.

...dtw

[patton]

I am seriously confused.

What country do you folks live in?

I have never been asked, in any store, to show a reciept for anything.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

Absolutely correct- but I did NOT say that I would consent to be searched just because the Constitution does not extend to the store exit. And searching me against my will could be a problem for somebody.

AS far as COSTCO goes, I believe that the "door checks" are OK, because they ARE part of the membership agreement, and apply to everyone. They check only the contents of your cart (at least I have never seen them try to check my wife's purse- good luck to them if they ever do!!!). I suspect that those checks are to catch the dishonest cashier or other employee, rather than some mythical shoplifter. (Of course, you COULD go there early in the day, buy a basket of goods, get the receipt and remove the litlle mark they put on it- easy enough to do. Then you could, theoretically, come back later in the day, fill your basket with the SAME ITEMS, then with a little maneuvering get by the cashier and out the door... No, that would never work, would it??)

[Kaslin]

Wal_mart does it here too. They don't do it to everyone. As a matter of fact I don't remember ever being stopped. and when I am done with my purchases I usually go to the registers that are closer to the exits. (like I am trying to sneak out with something)

What bothers we more is having to show every time my credit/Debit card and drivers license every time I use it at this particular Wal-Mart. Even if I would shop every day, or after leaving the store and before driving away I remembered that I forgot some items so I go back and I will be asked again for my credit/Debit card and ID. I asked one cashier once why they do that. She told me this is the only store they do that. The store is close to Ft. Campbell Kentucky. Does that mean the people who go to this particular store are more likely to have "stolen" credit cards? I don't think so

We have 2 Wal-Marts here and I am never asked at the other store. And recently went to a Wal-Mart in Nashville a few times where they don't even know me and not once was I asked to show my ID along with my card. I have no problem if they ask once in a while but every day

[Chad Fairbanks]

The Walmart in Mill Creek, Washington does it...

[WFTR]

I haven't shopped at K-Mart since the Rosie O'Donnell flap, so their policies have no effect on me in any case. At Best Buy in Houston, there was always someone standing at the door to see that I was carrying a receipt or at least some other piece of paper with numbers and a shopping bag. I don't remember them asking to see inside the bag.

While they are within their rights to ask to see what's in the bag, we are within our rights to go elsewhere. I really wouldn't have a problem with their actions except as an example of how people are forgetting the intent of the Fourth Amendment. I think what we're seeing on this thread is that the problem occurs mostly in urban areas where there are all kinds of social problems anyway. The real solution will be changing those areas so that many of the problems are under control.

WFTR
Mostly afraid of your ignorance (of the 4th Amendment)
Bill

[Chad Fairbanks]

Yes it is... we'll have to sit down over a beer or two sometime and exchange war stories (all the times we were shot at, had knives pulled on us, employees slashing our tires, etc...)

[patton]

Shrug. So shop somewhere else.

[Texas Mom]

Recently I was stopped on my way out of KMart by an employee asking to see my receipt and contents of my bags. I asked if I was suspected of doing something illegal to which he replied, "No, it's just our policy to match purchases against your receipt." I told him that unless he had reasonable cause to believe that I'd done something illegal there was no way I was going to let him inspect either one. To his credit, he did not press the issue and allowed me to leave.

They have done that at Sams Club and Walmart for years.. Maybe because they have had so many shop lifter in the past.

[alisasny]

Chad, I can recall a good 6 month period were I stopped huge amounts of shrink only to get no raise because I didnt fill out the daily paperwork properly.

Funny is I always loved cards and gifts until I went to work for a corporate store to get the benefits...I have never looked back and would never subject myself to such abuse again.

[Sam Cree]

"I would not assert a Fourth Amendment right not to be searched, because it does not apply to private acts- only acts of the Federal Government. "

I think I generally agree with you, but I am pretty sure that no private entity has any coercive rights either.

[Chad Fairbanks]

I don't shop there for several reasons, but the number one reason I don't shop at Walmart - the employees are rude... :0)

[Chad Fairbanks]

I can deal with corporate politics and such, it's the customers that always ticked me off... ;0)

[Libloather]

4. Quit yer bitchin' and get over it.

[jmax]

"Every Wal-Mart I have been in in the last 5 years has been doing this."

I note from your profile that you're from Mississippi. During the "last 5 years", you've obviously never been to a Wal-Mart on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. I've been to EVERY ONE, at one time or another, from Waveland to Pascagoula, plus at least 4 in Mobile, Ala. NEVER been searched, nor have I ever seen anyone else searched, unless the anti-theft went off as someone was going out. And, only seen that maybe 1/2 dozen times !!!! Is routine for Sam's Club, though.

[southern rock]

Private business, they can do what they want.

They can't search people without consent. Only legal law inforcment can do that, and even then ONLY with a warrent.

[Timesink]

I assumed it was a slop-over from their Sam's Club policy and have never considered it a big deal. Just for grins, I may follow your example and put the "door-nazi" on the spot.

Yeah, but then you feel bad if your "door nazi" turns out to be a 75-year-old grandmother.

In any case, they never do more than the most cursory check, in my experience; they're looking for expensive stuff such as things from the electronics department, not a 69¢ box of macaroni and cheese. Twice in the last year, I've gotten to my car and unloaded everything into the truck, only to discover that I'd forgotten about the gallon jugs of distilled water I'd put on the underside of the cart. The cashier didn't notice, and neither did the Door Nazi. Both times I had to take them back inside to pay for them, and both times I was stopped immediately once inside the door and asked if I was carrying a return. They were completely flustered by a guy bringing in a jug of their own water, unopened, with no receipt. I could have just lied to them, surrendered to their requests, and "returned" it for 58¢.

[lawdude]

Hmmm. I get computer and other components from Fry's Electronics here in Phoenix for substantially less than most other stores. Could it be the result of extra security at the store?

The typical store without such security measures looses more than 10% of its sales each year to theft. That cost is bourne by the customer, not the stockholder. This comes in the form of higher prices.

We Americans want the lowest price possible. We want absolute assurances that the plane we get on will not be hijacked. We want our schools to be free from nuts with guns.

But we don't want any of the measures that go to make these things happen (inspection, X-ray, etc). I don't either and dislike the idea of searches. But I allow it because I want the lower price. No, I do not equate this inconvenience with loss of freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

If someone can show me how to realize these asurances without some intrusion, please do so.

[alisasny]

I worked management in NYC for a good 6 months before I asked for a transfer to a store closer to my home on Long Island. The open store in Rockefeller Center was much easier to handle.

When I got to the mall on Long Island I was hopeful and happy, I was getting married soon ect. I had to take on the prior staff and find out all the crap. I couldn't be there 14 hours a day 7 days a week, 363 days a year. About a year and a half after I started there and got married I found out I was pregnant and stayed on until my son was 5 months old and actually obtained a good six months of unemployment as the store closed and I stayed on to help them close the store to the final day.

What still amazes me is that I knew so much about how to sell and market cards and gifts and did a very good job. But I had to deal with the corporate crap and the district manager.

I also never took kindly to shrinkage as I knew most of it was employee related. However I had to take the fall for the entire store staff.

All in all glad I had the experience as I have been a stay at home mom ever since and that is the true reward.

[southern rock]

Of course it's not. But the chip-on-the-shoulder paranoids have their antennae up, just waiting to pounce on some little guy who wants to make sure that they are taking out of the store only what they paid for.

Excuse me, but how does some P*ss-ant private employee have any right to search anyone who hasn't stolen anything??

[Scully]

Then turn around and return your purchase

This is a great idea! I'm going to do this next time they bug me. Thanks!