Freep KMart on exit-door search policy

[Sparqi]

Recently I was stopped on my way out of KMart by an employee asking to see my receipt and contents of my bags. I asked if I was suspected of doing something illegal to which he replied, "No, it's just our policy to match purchases against your receipt." I told him that unless he had reasonable cause to believe that I'd done something illegal there was no way I was going to let him inspect either one. To his credit, he did not press the issue and allowed me to leave.

The practice of door-checking seems to have started at either Fry's Electronics in California or perhaps at PriceClub/Costco. In the latter case they can enforce the inspection policy because there is actually a clause in the Costco membership agreement which specifically states that a condition of membership is granting them the right to inspect as you leave. (This is why I don't have a Costco membership.) Fry's has been doing inspections for some time, giving rise to the perjorative term "Door-Nazis". Many people such as myself simply walk by the checkpoint and refuse to stop, since Fry's is not a membership store. Essentially they take advantage of your good nature and ask you to voluntarily waive your freedom (and your dignity) to help them control their shrinkage.

Until recently the Fry's policy was really a local issue, confined to California and some western states; so I never really pursued any activism against them...aside from personally advocating to other people that the practice was an insult and explaining that while Fry's can of course *request* that you stop and allow inspection that they cannot *force* you to stop if they don't have probable cause. Now that KMart is doing this, I think it's national enough to warrant a Freep. Here's what I'm proposing:

1. Make it a point to not be cowed into consenting to the search. If they ask to inspect your purchases, ask them if they suspect you of doing anything illegal. This establishes that they do or don't have cause to stop you. Remember; once you've paid for your purchases and they've accepted the payment, you are carrying personal property and they have cannot search you unless they have probable cause such as evidence of shoplifting.

2. If they admit that they don't have cause, tell them you don't consent to being searched and leave. If they press the issue, remind them that the Fourth Amendment guarantees your right against illegal searches. (Sometimes this is hard to explain, because the checker is not an American citizen.) If they try to restrain you, don't fight them or put up a physical struggle. Ask to speak to the most senior manager of the store immediately. Point out to him or her the illegality of the situation and ask if they're prepared to defend their actions in a court of law.

3. Instruct your friends/family/co-workers on the issue. Make sure they understand that what KMart is doing is an insult and a violation of their basic rights.

...dtw

[glory]

And here proves my point of the snobbish assumptions of *SOME* customers! While at times, many times, it may be true:the stereotype, some forget that there are freepers out there working the lines and exits. Those of us who have forgone our regular careers because of other obligations and pick up the retail jobs for the discounts and enjoyment of having periodic work as a change of pace from home obligations.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Yes!

If they havn't left the store, there is, technically, no theft and the odds of ever getting a conviction are pretty damned slim (except for in Arizona, apparently)...

[glory]

Not full time anyway. As I mentioned I pick up various retail gigs during the holidays for extra cash or discounts(I'm a stay at home mom the rest of the time;-) This temporary employment with retail institutions is very enjoyable imo.

[glory]

depends on how vigilant the door person is. I believe they are supposed to be looking at time and date on the reciept as well. If someone catches that, then your caught.

[KneelBeforeZod]

court case: shoplifter never left the store....IN THE COURT OF APPEALS OF THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI (their caps, not mine...too lazy to retype it!)

Also you can bet arrested for just having a booster box...ie hidden opening in a bag, bag lined with tinfoil to thwart tag sensors, etc.

[glory]

She's wrong, it is not the only store that does it. It's done frequently, if not all the time at a Walmart in Phoenix--75th ave just down from the I10.

[KneelBeforeZod]

Question #137 - Can a retail store ask me to empty my pockets to prove I didn't take anything?

Answer: Yes. If a merchant has reasonable cause to believe someone is shoplifting in their store, the law says they can detain the person for a reasonable time in order to question the suspected shoplifter and/or call the police. The merchant can certainly ask you to empty your pockets but you can choose not to cooperate. They would then most likely assume you did steal something and call the police. Depending on the information which led the store to believe you had been shoplifting, the police might arrest you and conduct a search incident to the arrest.

[glory]

There again is the snobbish attitude..sigh, you all are making it too easy.
from the P*ss ant glory

[alisasny]

In addition retail managers are so overworked there is not time to go to court, specially in small retail shops. I figure if I had spent a day out of store to go prosecute someone I can only imagine what was stolen the day I was out of the store.

[glory]

Budge, neither do I friend. I've worked retail too and some of the ignorant assumptions of retail employees here are offensive to say the least. I am with other posters on this much, I've dealt with antenae crew like those against the "searches" here and they are usually the biggest pain the rear customers in just about every aspect and very condescending to boot. They will make a problem where there isn't one and be sure that you are very aware of not only a mistake you made, but the fact that they think your a stupid, illiterate "p*ss ant" as well. Good riddance I say, don't let the sliding doors hit your fanny on the way out!

[KneelBeforeZod]

no!

what about removing a price tag...replacing a price tag, or removing something from a box?

[KneelBeforeZod]

most state shoplifting laws need you to only prove the following:

1. The merchandise belonged to the store and was for sale (not a freebie like stickers, calenders, etc)

2. Suspect took possesion with intent to not pay or altered item to pay less.

that's it.

I worked loss prevention in my college bookstore. Most often stolen items: engineering books. Mostly because they cost so much...I guess.

Worst bust (for the parents): some boy about 13 who would hang out in the bookstore when his mom was at night class. he ripped an ad for *ahem* "personal devices" out of Playgirl magazine and put it in his pocket. His grandfather threatened to sue the store. But of course never did. Probably found out what he was stealing AFTER he called the store and started screaming.

[glory]

You know I hadn't been in KMart in ages(because of the Rosie thing) and I went in the other day to check it out. They don't even have cashiers anymore on the registers except in returns and at the cigarette aisle. Everything else was You ring them. I like having the convenience of these checks if you need them, but it was so lifeless and impersonal not having cashiers. For better or worse, I think I liked a live person better!
This brings up another point though. What about this? Do the nitpickers here object to someone checking receipts for the "U ring them"? Or that they weigh your product on the other side to be sure you are putting in the right item? How intrusive(sarcasm off)

[glory]

Oh bologna. I have never felt like a thief in a Sam's club because thier policy is fairly placed on every customer.

I only feel that way with stores where thier checks are random and you don't know thier basis for stopping you.

[glory]

That goes without saying(lack of morals and characters). I know from working retail that some of the assumptions are true for a lot of the employees. I do think the companies have to deal with this lack of moral character in the best way they can within the law--if that's searching the bags, then that's what they have to do.

I feel for you having worked loss prevention. It seems a thankless job and one that can get dangerous at times. I always liked looking at all the tvs(for the cameras) in thier office. Lowe's has a great system. We got to ooh and aah over how our loss guy could focus in on a reciept! It was pretty neat! I was just amazed at how much things had changed in the last 12 years(it was my first time working retail in that long).

[Quilla]

I shop at K-Mart for two main reasons. In yet another of my brilliant moves in the stock market, I bought several shares of stock at .81 (currently trading at .65, hence the brilliant comment). Secondly, the place is deserted. I always get a number one parking place, can run in an pick up a few things, and there is no one in the check out line.

About fifty percent of the time, as I'm pushing my cart through the security device, the alarm sounds. I simply raise my hands, stick 'em up fashion, and look back at my cashier. Since the entire store is watching me at this point, another cashier or employee generally waves me on through. No one has ever checked my receipt.

[Rebelbase]

Bill, Off topic, I was Hendersonville this past weekend and noticed several police in black combat fagitues, some with combat accessory vests. It seems that the traditional blue button down shirt and blue pants are becoming obsolete in L.E. I wonder if intimidation is a factor in changing from the traditional uniforms?

And, back to Walmart, I bought a compound bow and several arrow shafts from the Walmart in Brevard on Sat. I paid at the sports counter, put the reciept in my pocket and walked out carring the bow and arrows with no bag or "Paid sticker". No one stopped me and asked to see a receipt.

[southern rock]

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

Fair enough.

[southern rock]

Do I have it down or am I missing something?

Umm... and the reason these stores don't place the check-put cashiers right near the exit is what??

[southern rock]

I notice that some of my books seem to be missing. Do I have a right to search your new chest before you leave my house?

Actually, no. You can call the police if you wish to make a formal accusation.