Posted on 08/29/2002 11:13:48 AM PDT by Asmodeus
HONOLULU, Aug. 28 — Researchers said Wednesday they found a Japanese midget submarine sunk more than an hour before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Discovery of the 78-foot vessel could provide the first physical evidence to back U.S. military assertions that it fired first against Japan in World War II and inflicted the first casualties.>p>
THE SUB was sunk by a Navy destroyer on Dec. 7, 1941. Two Japanese crewmen are believed still inside the submarine.
“It’s the shot that started World War II between the Americans and the Japanese,” said John Wiltshire, associate director of the Hawaii Undersea Research Laboratory, which found the sub. The two-man submarine was discovered unexpectedly at a depth of 1,200 feet and a few miles from Pearl Harbor by research craft making test dives, he said.
The sub led four other Japanese midget submarines to Pearl Harbor to take part in the attack. The newly discovered sub was believed to be the one sunk by the destroyer USS Ward before the attack began. Wiltshire said the crew is certain that this sub was sunk by the Ward because of a bullet hole in the conning tower and because it still has both torpedoes. Three of the subs have been previously accounted for; the remaining sub had fired both of its weapons.
Until the submarine was found, historian Daniel Martinez said eyewitness accounts were unconfirmed. Martinez, a historian for the USS Arizona Memorial, has interviewed the crew who fired the first shot, and a pilot who saw the submarine sink. “What they saw and what they felt was their recollection, now the proof has been found,” he said.
The submarines’ entry into the harbor was followed by the Sunday morning attack by Japanese planes that lasted two hours and left 21 U.S. ships heavily damaged, 323 aircraft damaged or destroyed, 2,390 people dead and 1,178 other wounded.
Terry Kerby, chief pilot of the deep-diving submersible that found the submarine, said it was covered in growth but was in excellent condition. “To actually come across it was a sobering moment, realizing that was the shot that started the Pacific war,” he said.
This is one of the two University of Hawaii deep diving submersibles that discovered a sunken Japanese midget submarine a few miles from Pearl Harbor.
Kerby and other researchers have been conducting dives in the area since the 1980s, and have always known the sub was somewhere out there. Wiltshire described the area as an underwater military junkyard. ‘To actually come across it was a sobering moment, realizing that was the shot that started the Pacific war.’ “The thing is quite difficult to find because of all the massive amounts of junk out in the area, and we were simply fortunate because we’ve run our test and training dives through here and know where a lot of the junk is,” Wiltshire said.
The submarine was the focus of a National Geographic expedition in 2000. A team of deep-water researchers led by undersea explorer Robert Ballard spent 10 days searching for the Japanese sub, using remotely operated imaging vehicles. Ballard is best known for finding the remains of the Titanic, Bismarck and Yorktown, along with the recent discovery of PT-109, the torpedo boat commanded by John F. Kennedy during World War II and sunk near the Solomon Islands.
If this is the sub sunk by the Ward, then the damage should be visible. If it's not there, then perhaps the Ward sank another sub with its depth charges.
An enemy sub in our waters, a fleet of aircraft carriers in the Hawaiian Island vicinity, hundreds of planes in route to Pearl Harbor, and the Associated Press says we fired the first shot.
If every Japanese plane was shot down before it dropped it's load over Pearl Harbor, would that make us the agressor nation?
The Associated press is full of poop!
Well heck, most sensible people already knew that.
And now they've found the sub, which is historicly interesting.
But it still isn't a valid reason for the sensational headline that questions that fact.
The headline should be more assertive, stating that the sub has been found.
Questioning whether or not we sunk it only leads to revisionist poppycock.
No, they weren't. Just because "The Japanese carrier fleet has disappeared and we don't know where they are" is no reason to be on alert. After all, they were looking to the south and found just the small sub. Too bad the carrier fleet was to the north. Fortunately [luck?] the American Navy carriers were out of port or it would have been a short and most unsatisfactory war.
No, but receiving a message that opens with "THIS MESSAGE IS TO BE CONSIDERED A WAR WARNING" shoulda woken some folks up and made 'em realize that things were getting serious.
The sub led four other Japanese midget submarines to Pearl Harbor to take part in the attack. The newly discovered sub was believed to be the one sunk by the destroyer USS Ward before the attack began. Wiltshire said the crew is certain that this sub was sunk by the Ward because of a bullet hole in the conning tower and because it still has both torpedoes. Three of the subs have been previously accounted for; the remaining sub had fired both of its weapons.
The damage, apparently, is visible. Strongly suggests that this wreck is the Ward's target. FWIW, I think the wrick should be raised and preserved for the historical artifact that it is. Human remains, if any, should be returned to Japan for burial.
I thought the poster added it, but after checking the link, I can see that it is MSNBC that put this stupid spin on the story.
I should have guessed.
This coming from the University of Hawaii, is about as credible as Global Warming sceintists...
--erik
Gosh, it sure is lucky that Japan had that whole WAVE of fighters already in the air so they could "strike back" at 7:00 a.m. PST, isn't it?
Yep. That explains it all.
Thanks for checking the link!
I mean besides whether FDR knew in advance... and we'll never know about that.
It came from MSNBC. 'Nuf said.
Yep. Just think... if they had to wait for a trip report about Amtrak, World War II might not have happened!
;^)
The USS Ward spotted, attacked with gunfire, and then depth-charged a midget sub attempting to gain entry to the harbor area at 0637 local time on 12/7/41. That was a full 78 minutes prior to the first aircraft attack. This midget sub was found close to the position of the Ward at that time, and has damage consistent with the Ward's account of events.
Yup, we fired first--and with good reason for doing so.
That sub was attempting to get into the harbor and add to the carnage that its animal brothers in the air were about to inflict.
Any unknown/hostile sub trying to enter that harbor HAD to be treated in this way ... and it was ... and it would have been had those aircraft not been about to attack as well.
The hostile intent and attempts were initiated by the Japanese in a surprise assault on Pearl Harbor. This sub was just a part of that. I'm gald in that case we got the first shots off and sunk the bastards.
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