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N.H. police chief wants dorm forfeited under drug laws
Boston.com ^ | 8-27-2002 | Stephen Frothingham

Posted on 08/28/2002 12:27:14 AM PDT by rmmcdaniell

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:08:10 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

DOVER, N.H. (AP) Police arrested nine current and former McIntosh College students on drug charges Tuesday, as the city police chief said he was pushing federal prosecutors to seize a college dorm under federal drug forfeiture laws.

''It is an open-air drug market like we've never seen in the city,'' Chief William Fenniman said of the dormitory at 181 Silver St., where most of the suspects lived. ''My idea is ... to stop the building from being used for illicit activity. Whatever it takes to do that, I'm willing to do.''


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: wodlist
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To: Drumbo
Hey fellas - it looks like your JBT's on the Dover police force are wearing tennis shoes. Maybe you mean TSTs?

Yeah, a nice little propaganda shot for the cameras. You obviously neglected to read the entire article. I'll repost the relevent section so that you have an opportunity to see what you missed..

From the original article:

Culinary students who saw the raid had mixed reactions. Amy Todd, 19, of Billerica, Mass., and Cecilia Self, 18, of Harrisville, N.H., said police used excessive force.

They said reporters were present before the raid started and news photographers took pictures as students were thrown to the ground and arrested.

''They had guns like in a movie,'' Todd said. ''I thought they were going to arrest all of us.''

''Why do you need M-14s to arrest kids with weed?'' Self asked.

I doubt they had M-14 rifles which are usually used as sniper rifles. The student is probably not that familiar with firearms. I'd say they might have had MP5 sub-machine guns if they had anything other than handguns, as that IS the weapon of choice for SWAT teams.

The picture you posted is more than likely a nice, sanitized press photo that people like you can use as proof that excessive force wasn't used. Eyewitnesses say differently however.

The point is this. As per eyewitness accounts, guns WERE brandished, and they weren't simply Glocks or Sigs. They were brandished at a SCHOOL, with many innocent bystanders nearby. There was what, a park AND an elementary school nearby? What if something HAD happened? What if there had been a "accidental" discharge as happens ALL too often in these situations? What if the bad guys decided to shoot it out with the cops?

To me, any brandishment of weapons at or near a school UNLESS absolutely necessary to protect life is excessive use of force.

Finally, the chief's crusade to seize the dorm from the school isn't only excessive, but a fascist un-American attempt to defy the protections afforded by the Constitution of the United States.

Back to the article:

The two said that some students smoke marijuana in their rooms, but there are few loud parties or hard drugs on campus.

To me it appears that the REAL reason for the raid is that the chief thought he'd make a name for himself, obtain the dorm from the school and sell it off, making a nice little sum of money for the department (and possible for him personally as well), andthen blame everything on the "drug fiends" who run the school. Students smoking pot in their rooms on occasion does not make the place a crack house.

If you don't like the laws in New Hampshire, you have two choices. Run for office and change the laws or get out of my state. OIC, you are already out of New Hampshire. Good! Live Free or Die! Sell drugs and suck pavement!

I find it amusing that you refer to the state motto while advocating a totalitarian solution. You obviously do not understand freedom, what it means, and why our forefathers set out to limit the power of government.

You apparently are too blind to see that you are NOT free if you are at the mercy of a system that can gun you down on any pretense that you might be involved with drugs. You might not be involved, but somebody with a grudge against you COULD say you were. The cops HAVE been wrong about which house they should crash in before, and HAVE killed innocent men, women, and children.

Under that threat, you ARE NOT FREE, although you think that this type of thing is just great stuff. Until it happens to you or your family that is....

READ some of the posts I've posted concerning this. It CAN and DOES happen all the time. I don't accept your portrayal of this as a subdued arrest by neighborhood cops in tennis shoes. Sure, the image you've posted DOES show that. BUT, several EYEWITNESSES say different, and unless you were there, you DON'T KNOW what happened.

101 posted on 08/28/2002 4:37:08 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Japedo
Are you also going to sit here and tell me there are NO drugs in Dover high?

No, I won't tell you there are NO drugs in Dover high. But, I will tell you that with nine drug dealers off the Dover streets - there will be fewer drugs in Dover High School next week, than last week.
102 posted on 08/28/2002 4:56:48 PM PDT by Drumbo
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To: Drumbo
No, I won't tell you there are NO drugs in Dover high. But, I will tell you that with nine drug dealers off the Dover streets - there will be fewer drugs in Dover High School next week, than last week.

You're kidding yourself if you believe that!

103 posted on 08/28/2002 5:06:38 PM PDT by Japedo
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To: FormerLurker
I have read your posts... OUTSTANDING JOB!... Just so you're not mislead by what drumbo said... (I live here) The School and the Campus (small as it is..) is across the street from an Elementary school. The Park is in town Dover, you can't even see the park from that school, its so far in town. Why Henry law ave. Park is brought into the entire story is beyond me.. Its a Town park, Play ground, skate park ect. It has nothing to do with any of the schools in Question and infact can't even be seen from any of the 3 schools named (counting St. Mary's).

Dover Host's some of the Apple Harvest Fest in and around that park. but it is not a "school Zone". Its behind a Bar if you want the honest truth!

Seems to me that they are trying to blow this story into something its not.

Dover is a town run by leftists make no mistake, they are trying to outlaw smoking in bars and everything else in that town. Thanks to the people from MA moving here!! Higher taxes and less freedom... before long one wont be able to tell the difference between the two states

104 posted on 08/28/2002 5:17:12 PM PDT by Japedo
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To: FormerLurker
"The picture you posted is more than likely a nice, sanitized press photo that people like you can use as proof that excessive force wasn't used. Eyewitnesses say differently however."
Since when is a camera not an eyewittness?

You are quoting 18 & 19 year-old kids saying, "They had guns like in a movie"! You admit that your eyewittnesses don't know an M-14 from an MP5!

I posted a picture "as students were thrown to the ground and arrested." Your wittness Todd thought they were going to arrest him because he was obviously holding - why else would he on the scene or be arrested? Of course, the cops only took down the dealers, not the pot smokers - but you've got a problem with that.

However, you have no pictures to prove anything, other than a rehash collage of Waco and Ruby Ridge. For the record, I'm not happy about Waco or Ruby Ridge but I don't see the link to drug dealers in Dover, NH. What you "doubt" and what you'd "say" really has no bearing on what happened what-so-ever, other than impeaching your own eyewittnesses as being firearm ignorant and untrustworthy - so much for their "eyewittness" testimony. You weren't there and you don't know what happened. I at least have a picture.

The picture is of two aging cops taking down a large young man without the use of MP5's or M-14s and there's no sign of a jack boot anywhere. Of couse, the picture was staged - the Dover cops were brought in for a photo op right after the BATF used assault weapons to shoot and subdue Mr. Wilburn - or is that Chef Wilburn?

105 posted on 08/28/2002 5:27:13 PM PDT by Drumbo
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To: FormerLurker
Here's my theory I'm a bit afraid to test out:

Pick a random name in the phone book, call in an anonymous drug tip to the police, and see if they raid the residence. I'd bet even odds that they do.

My fear is that this experiment would be illegal on my part. Is it?
106 posted on 08/28/2002 5:30:02 PM PDT by spodbox
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To: rmmcdaniell
the police are N.G.O of the U.N
107 posted on 08/28/2002 5:38:07 PM PDT by USA21
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Comment #108 Removed by Moderator

To: Dane
I say lets put all the Libertarians on a reservation and let them pump all of the drugs they want into themselves till they reach their Libertarian Nervana (AKA OD).
109 posted on 08/28/2002 6:06:26 PM PDT by Redleg Duke
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To: FormerLurker
Personally I like the Colt SMG better than the HK MP5N, which we have now.

I don't agree with the property confiscation but I think alot-make that the majority-of colleges need to clean up their schools.

This story gives Higher Education a new meaning eh?

110 posted on 08/28/2002 6:19:58 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: FormerLurker
What an utter waste of bandwidth. If you can post your answers in a few normally formatted paragraphs and maybe some links, you are absolutely incabable of even participating in this debate.
111 posted on 08/28/2002 8:03:02 PM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: Khepera; redsman
bump for that, bubba
112 posted on 08/28/2002 8:09:54 PM PDT by Dakmar
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To: FormerLurker
I want to thank you for your posts. A month ago I was pro-WOD but after reading post after post about the excesses of law enforcement and the attitude of the rabid pro-WODers out here I started to change my mind. BUT after I read your posts tonight about all the innocent people being killed and the wanton disregard of the Constitution exhibited by SWAT teams who would make the Gestapo and the SS proud, I have completed the transition. This WOD is insane and has to stop, if only to save our Republic.

I am also absolutely disgusted by some Pro-WODers out here. It is my opinion that a couple of these "people" would be perfectly happy working as guards at any giving WW2 German concentration camp.

113 posted on 08/28/2002 8:48:38 PM PDT by 1_American
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To: spodbox
My fear is that this experiment would be illegal on my part. Is it?

I'm sure that it technically is, but whether or not they'd ever catch you is a different matter, as they welcome "anonymous tips" 24-7...

114 posted on 08/28/2002 9:37:14 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Cap'n Crunch
This story gives Higher Education a new meaning eh?

You and I both know (I think) that the fact is, that has been true since the 60's. When it turns into a dangerous situation it has to be defused, not ignited. And from what I recollect of your previous postings, I think you know that to be true as well.

God speed.

115 posted on 08/28/2002 9:40:26 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: VA Advogado
If you can post your answers in a few normally formatted paragraphs and maybe some links, you are absolutely incabable of even participating in this debate

Too many facts for you to "deal" with VA? Too many excuses, cliches, and factoids to drag out of your can of tricks to address the matter at hand?

Why don't you just admit that you are wrong? It'd reduce FR's bandwidth by a whole bunch, and would be an honest attempt at redeeming yourself...

116 posted on 08/28/2002 9:44:58 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: 1_American
BUT after I read your posts tonight about all the innocent people being killed and the wanton disregard of the Constitution exhibited by SWAT teams who would make the Gestapo and the SS proud, I have completed the transition. This WOD is insane and has to stop, if only to save our Republic

1_American, it is precisely because of people like you that I DO post here at FR..

God bless you.

117 posted on 08/28/2002 9:49:01 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Banger
You are correct. I suspect that is why NH is the fastest growing NE state.

Not quite. NH has no income tax or sales tax. That is THE primo reason why people choose to live there. And yes, there are certain freedoms in NH that you wouldn't find in other NE states. Gun rights being the predominant of those freedoms, but I can't really think offhand what any others might be....

118 posted on 08/28/2002 9:56:25 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
Not quite. NH has no income tax or sales tax. That is THE primo reason why people choose to live there. And yes, there are certain freedoms in NH that you wouldn't find in other NE states. Gun rights being the predominant of those freedoms, but I can't really think offhand what any others might be....

Safe and Sane fireworks are permitted. Every other state in the NE bans everything.

119 posted on 08/29/2002 2:25:00 AM PDT by rmmcdaniell
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To: FormerLurker
Too many facts for you to "deal" with VA?

Too much fiction. In every one of those made up stories, the perps got what they deserve.

120 posted on 08/29/2002 4:40:44 AM PDT by VA Advogado
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