AUTOPSY AND INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS ON THE DEATH OF CHIEF NEGOTIATOR

08/23/02 | Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, Houston Fire Department Fire/Arson Investigations

[COB1]

About three months ago, under the advice of the Texas Attorney General's office, I wrote a registered letter to Joyce M. Carter of the Medical Examiner's Office of Harris County in Houston, Texas, requesting the coroner's report on Herbert Paul Meadows, known to us as CHIEF Negotiator, who died in a fire at his house on October 4, 2001.

That report along with the Houston Fire Department's report on the investigation of that fire has finally arrived.

Without going into the technical aspects of the autopsy report, CHIEF Negotiator's death was ruled as accidental due to smoke inhalation.

NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY:

From the Arson Bureau's report:

"The fire originated at floor level approximately 4 feet west of the east wall adjacent to the south wall in the formal dining area. At this point the sheetrock on the south wall shows calcination along the south wall approximately 6 feet in length in the area below the southeast window. This suggests an area of intense burning and high heat.
The wood wall base trim at the area of origin was deeply charred by the fire. A wooden dining set of 4 wooden chairs and a wooden table were almost completely consumed by the fire. Small charred pieces of the table and chairs were all that remained.
The fire was very intense in the dining room area and spread to the adjacent rooms to the east, west and north. These rooms sustained high heat and fire damage from the fire spread. The fire consumed wooden doors separating the dining room from the kitchen and family room. Burn patterns were consistent with a fire moving from the dining room area into the adjacent rooms."

These next pics I took through the window shown by the arrow:

Continuing with the Arson Bureau's report:

"Investigators observed that the north side garage entry door was kicked open and that a partial shoe print was found on the door. This investigator was unable to determine if the door was forced by firefighters or was forced prior to the fire."[italics and bold mine]

------------------------- From the Arson Bureau's report:

-------------------------

"Captain ------ of L-36 told Investigator ------ that he found the deceased Herbert Paul Meadows lying in a fetal position, with his head against the west wall in the bathroom near the den. Firefighters dragged the victim to the driveway where he was pronounced dead by paramedics of Squad 40."

--------------------------

"Engineer ------- of L-36 reported that he observed two tripped electrical breakers when he shut off the electrical power."

-------------------------

Investigator ------- went to St. Lukes Emergency Room to interview --------(Mrs.) Meadows who is the wife of the deceased. --------(Mrs.) Meadows was transported by H.F.D. ambulance after the fire. -------(Mrs.) Meadows was treated for smoke inhalation and had been medicated by the hospital but she was able to relate details of the fire.
(Mrs.) Meadows told investigators that she and her husband Herbert watched a late night T.V. show and then she had went to bed while her husband Herbert had went into the den to work on the computer.
Mrs. Meadows stated that she was in bed about 10 minutes as was not asleep when she heard a 'noise or crash'. Mrs. Meadows said the sound 'was like something going through a window'. These sounds came from the other side of the house where her husband was working. This sound was followed by loud screams. (sic)'Was like something going through a window!' She described the sounds made by her husband as 'like I never heard him scream in my life!'
-----(Mrs.) Meadows reported she ran down the hall toward the dining area and was stopped by the thick black smoke in the kitchen area. ----- (Mrs. Meadows) yelled at her husband and asked him if (sic) see needed to call '911'! (Mrs. Meadows) stated that she heard a 'muffled' 'yes!' and then lost contact with Herbert Meadows. (Mrs. Meadows) told investigator that she smelled a 'bar-b-que' type odor like 'when you light a fire with charcoal lighter fluid'. (Mrs. Meadows) attempted to call for help on a phone in the house but she reported the phone was dead. (sic) Meadows went outside in the front yard and yelled for help.

------------------

From notes of the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office:

"Arson inv. reveals no..(crossed out).. flammable fluids"
"The investigators.. (crossed out).. smelled gas at scene"
"Not sure if they are ruling arson or not"

[Squantos]

Takin it all in quietly......Stay Safe !

[philman_36]

I've got nagging thoughts and I'm not sure what's nagging me. Maybe after sleeping on it... For now...
If Herb died of smoke inhalation that means that he had to have been breathing the smoke for some time period. I'm still working things/thoughts in my mind. Either way, he had to have been alive for some time, even if unconscious, to have died of inhalation.
The earlier scenario could be changed so that the sequence of events are turned around slightly so that if a physical attack occured it might have occured in a different order.
The perp sees no one through the windows, assumes all are asleep, and enters the house. The DR fire is set at the file cabinets/wall. Herb wakes up, after already inhaling an unknown amount of smoke, smells/sees the smoke and comes running out of the BR pulling up his drawers. Encounters an intruder and then is doused, because the surprised asshole still has the combustible in his hands. Herb retreats into the BR, puts the fire on himself out (thus why only parts of him were burned) and then decides to wait out the intruder and eventually succombs from inhalation. The perp, with his breathing apparatus, waits as long as he can and flees at the latest possible moment to avoid capture.
Again, just thinking out loud, but the earlier theory just doesn't...jive...for some reason.

Thank you, Sir, and mudbugs and a couple of beers it is!

[Born in a Rage]

You mention you have a different arson report. You ask COB1 who signed his copy? Is the signature on yours different? If so can you post your copy so we can compair the two? And quit telling us we're not professionals. We already know that.

Did you hear the one about the private investigator? He spent his whole life trying to find himself....

You are a "professional" in my book, amom!

[xJones]

Nope, my home page is intentionally bland. But your home page is all so reveiling. Ego all over the place. Busted! Anyone that is interested can just look at the ego-centric's home page.

But the only thing that really matters is why Chief died and let's get back to that.

[My back yard]

C'mon guys. Not this stuff again. I keep thinking, what would Chief Negotiator do on this thread now. My gosh, I saw him do it so well -- that amicable way of making peace, but not getting angry and frustrated. (Give me guidance big guy.)

Misty you are a nice well-meaning poster to this subject, and always have been. You have been helpful in some areas, but you have hinted a lot to having knowledge no one else has. Which is great, but best kept out of this arena if it cannot be shared. Or, please point us in the direction where we might find it, and then we might also find some kind of understanding, if not justice, in this tragedy.

COB1, please let me know what, if anything, I can do to help. I'm ready to write letters, make phone calls, whatever, but I'll wait for your call on it.

God bless you both and everyone else who is trying to solve this case, and not going to give up until it is done.

[COB1]

Okay, Phil, I see your logic.
But it appears we have two different accelerants to deal with here.
Mrs. Chief is steadfast in her belief that she smelled charcoal lighter, and it appears now that at least some gasoline was used, if we can verify that.

[Barnacle]

Please provide something concrete to COB1. Something that he can independently verify. Remember, if you are working on the same team, there should be some teamwork.

A fine FReeper, Herb has died. We're seeking justice. That is the important thing. COB1 clearly cares and is located close to the incident and those who are investigating it.

At a minimum, give him enough concrete evidence for him to have confidence in what you're saying. If there is something that needs to remain confidential, don't post it. But, Heal the rift and work with COB1.

[COB1]

Thanks, back yard.
It may well come to a letter or e-mail campaign or a general freep at City Hall to get this thing the attention it deserves, but we'll get it one way or the other.

[My back yard]

I've wondered if there was any spot cleaning of the carpet done recently, before the event happened?. And if that might account for those spots.

[philman_36]

Mrs. Chief is steadfast in her belief that she smelled charcoal lighter, and it appears now that at least some gasoline was used, if we can verify that.
Coleman fuel?

[philman_36]

Or possibly even kerosene.

[amom]

LOL Born! Good to 'see' you!

Thanks for the kind words.

I try to do my best.

You'll have FReepmail in a few.

:-)

[My back yard]

This was an interesting post on #493


Just looking around my home office I have a can of lighter fluid, even tho I haven't used my Zippo in over a year. Also a can of PC Pipe Cement. Also a bottle of alcohol for cleaning the oil off my keyboard. Also a can of wood glue and a couple of tubes of instant glue. Then there is a glass kerosene lamp on top of the file cabinet.

All of these are sitting on my bookshelf and yes, they should be in the garage but, well, I just haven't gotten around to taking them out there.

I'm not trying to minimze the possibility of arson just adding a different direction of consideration for fuel odors

493 posted on 8/27/02 7:36 AM Central by B4Ranch

---

I'm looking around here at all the paper, books, cleaning fluids etc..., stored in the shelves around and under my computer.

[MistyCA]

I worked on this in my capacity as a Private Investigator. There was no client and there was no pay. I did it as a means of supporting an effort to find out what happened. There are things that I found out in confidence as always happens in case work. There are things I have shared with Cob in confidence (and others). It is apparent that he does not want to accept that and it is something I have no control over. I would have never posted the autopsy report on a public forum because the family does not deserve having this stuff bantered about like that. I have gone out of my way to get releases so that some information can be posted publically. Beyond that, I am not going to put my personal integrity or the integrity of an on-going investigation on the line because someone wants me to. I don't know any investigator who would do that. In fact, the problem with investigators working on this case has been just that.....you can not maintain the necessary professional integrity and go public with all the information we collected. Some have continually challenged my professional integrity because of Cob's attacks. Well, let me assure you that by doing that you are simply cutting off access to information which has been collected. Cob has seen in the past that the information I have given him has been proven as time went on. But after this attack I will just return to doing the things that I enjoy doing at FR....working with the Canteen to promote the troops. I can assure you that there are things about this case that I have been privy to that are important. As for pointing you in the direction you need to go to get similar information, I can't do that. Put your money together and hire a different investigator who is at least getting paid for the kick in the teeth. I certainly don't need this. Thanks for your post.

[amom]

Nice try but apparently it isn't going to work. *sigh*

[philman_36]

I'm looking around here at all the paper, books...
I've got papers, books, manuals, disks of various kinds, ashtray, screwdrivers, the empty tin for the Raisinets...no flammables, except for my Bic lighter.
The nearest flammables are for the kerosene lanterns, and they're the "el-cheapos" from WalMart, but they're about three feet away.
I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[My back yard]

See, dear, there you go. What you said seems like you have information that we need to carry this forward, but because of Cob's attack, you are not going to share it, now. I'm pretty certain that is not what you meant, but to some it might seem so.

[MistyCA]

BTW....I tried to work with Cob because he is in the area and because there were things that needed to be followed up in the area. He refused to cooperate with that effort and told me that he was concerned for his personal safety at that time. He made the decision to back away from the case and I found other people who were willing to do some work to assist various efforts. Some things that could be done never were because of the location of the case. Many things that could be done were. But this was all discussed in previous threads and in private discussions. My last telephone communication with Cob I tried to stress that as long as the investigation was ongoing I had to protect certain sources of information and certain of the information. He told me that he intended to post everything he found out publically and therefore I should not tell him confidential information relative to the case. That was his choice because in the beginning the need for teamwork was abundantly clear, but you can't go about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Think of it this way.....I gather information from sources who do not want to be identified on a public forum. I go tell Cob what I was told and who told me. Cob posts it. I lose my source. It's that simple.

[MistyCA]

I do have information and I don't plan to post it all publically. That is why we had a private forum where the information was shared. Unfortunately there were people in that forum who decided to make the information less than private. I am sorry, MBY.....that's the best I can do to explain my situation to you. A public forum is no place to conduct a private investigation.

[philman_36]

I do have information and I don't plan to post it all publically.
Is the information you will and have made "public" available strictly within the CHIEF threads at FR? Is there some other central depository for your "public" information?
I'd like to at least take a look at what you are willing to share. I've not really bothered with the situation too much before now because there was so little information available. COB's posting here is the first real documentation of any kind that I've actually seen.