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AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)
August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

Posted on 08/22/2002 7:04:53 AM PDT by Sabertooth

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
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To: VA Advogado; Sabertooth
I would not say he is completely wrong here. We do need to seal off the border, and cut back on future illegal immigration.

The only area of major disagreement, in my opinion, is HOW to deal with those who are here.
741 posted on 08/24/2002 6:38:13 PM PDT by hchutch
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To: hchutch
I would not say he is completely wrong here. We do need to seal off the border, and cut back on future illegal immigration.

Well no wonder you defend his ranting. You're in the same camp as him and NOT with our honorable President. Have fun on the dark side.

742 posted on 08/24/2002 6:44:10 PM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: Sabertooth
No amnesties, period.
743 posted on 08/24/2002 6:45:59 PM PDT by Tauzero
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To: Sabertooth; WRhine
To: The one FReeper who supports blanket amnesty,

I supported Nixon's amnesty for illegal aliens back in the 70's. It was a one time deal right?

Wrong! It's become a routine. It says to those contemplating immigrating to America, "Forget the laws, just pay for illegal entry and eventually you will have squatter’s rights.

Another round of amnesty will only exasperate the problem for ten years from now when we would be coerced the faulty logic of the pro-amnesty gang again.

744 posted on 08/24/2002 7:05:53 PM PDT by Barnacle
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To: VA Advogado
On the contrary, I favor a partial amnesty (and have the vitriol from certain other Freepers to prove it). I also happen to favor increased legal immigration, particularly from Mexico at the expense of Arab nations.

However, I'm not going to let the borders go totally pourous, nor do I feel right about kicking out people who are working hard in this country. If they an't violent criminals, drug dealers, or sponging off welfare, I'd let `em stick around.
745 posted on 08/24/2002 7:21:37 PM PDT by hchutch
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To: hchutch
Ok, fair enough. I agree that if someone is in this country working hard or a member of a family where a spouse or parent or child is supporting them, they should be left alone.
746 posted on 08/24/2002 7:39:52 PM PDT by VA Advogado
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To: Sabertooth
I support immediate deportation. Why do so many people treat illegal alien like one word, missing the illegal part? I mean, their first act upon entering a new country is to commit a crime.
747 posted on 08/24/2002 7:44:50 PM PDT by kylaka
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To: rdb3
I don't support blanket amnesty at all, but then, I have yet to hear one cogent solution to finding then deporting all of the illegals.

A big part of the problem is simply lack of enforcement of the existing law, especially on employers. We need highly publicized raids of some large employers, as well as some small ones. There used to be, and still is as far as I know, a $5000 fine levied against an employer for every illegal he hires. This law has not been enforced in many years.

The point is, if companies started paying fines right and left, it wouldn't take long for most of the illegal hiring to stop.

748 posted on 08/24/2002 7:55:28 PM PDT by Lion's Cub
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To: rdb3
How about that plan? Think it would work?
749 posted on 08/24/2002 8:01:59 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: 4Freedom
The over-the-top talking notwithstanding, it sounds like a good, workable idea. I know it most certainly beats an American Kristallnacht, that's for sure.
750 posted on 08/24/2002 8:08:22 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: Lion's Cub
A big part of the problem is simply lack of enforcement of the existing law, especially on employers.

Agreed! They cross illegally for the money.

We need highly publicized raids of some large employers, as well as some small ones.

Interesting! Highly publicized, eh? I could get wonderful political mileage out of this one. Good idea.

The point is, if companies started paying fines right and left, it wouldn't take long for most of the illegal hiring to stop.

I've suggested similar tactics. It sounds far more rational AND workable than the venom-dripping lips I hear about this issue.

751 posted on 08/24/2002 8:15:57 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: rdb3
I agree.

If you go after their employers. Take away their welfare benefits and other social services. Then give them a time certain to leave. Things should move along pretty quickly. Why would they stay?

How could the majority of them stay?

752 posted on 08/24/2002 8:18:41 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: VA Advogado
The important thing is we both know that Sabertooth is about as wrong on this issue as the KKK was on race relations.

Just can't lose that race card can you?

Oh, and thanks for confirming by your steadfast refusal to answer my question that your are in fact a Communist. I suspected as much a while ago. There can be wide latitude of honest debate on the subject of immigration but No TRUE American would EVER advocate unlimited immigration...particularly from 3rd world countries. You are sewer scum.

753 posted on 08/24/2002 8:23:21 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: Sabertooth
NO Amnesty, and myriad inducements to illegal enry and residence must be ended (tuition breaks, welfare, food stamps, free health care, refusal to prosecute, etc.)
754 posted on 08/24/2002 8:23:48 PM PDT by ATR
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To: 4Freedom

How could the majority of them stay?

I'm not gonna tell you what I heard. I'm gonna tell you what I know. So oblige me, if you will.

I lived in the projects in Cleveland for 3 years. Now, there was a roach problem. So what did Mama do? She stayed on my backside on cleanliness because she told me that to get rid of them we had to take their incentive for being there, namely, food. They go where they can eat.

That meant NO eating in the bedroom or the living room. So after a couple of months, and many slices from a switch let me tell you (I love peanut butter, you see), the roach problem came under control.

Now, I'm not likening Mexicans to roaches. I give this illustration to show that if we can remove their incentive for migrating here illegally (money), they have to go elsewhere, or, come legally.

It's as simple as that, at least to me.

755 posted on 08/24/2002 8:31:22 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: Sabertooth
BTTT!!
756 posted on 08/24/2002 8:40:07 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell
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To: rdb3
Yes, going after their employers has to be part of any deportation plan.
757 posted on 08/24/2002 8:49:57 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: VA Advogado
Ok, fair enough. I agree that if someone is in this country working hard or a member of a family where a spouse or parent or child is supporting them, they should be left alone.

Tell me, who is going to determine if an individual is "working hard"? What world do YOU live IN? Heck, the INS doesn't even KNOW how many illegal aliens are in this country much less KNOW who they are or, more laughable, how "hard" they work. Does this sound workable to you? LOL.

Besides, since when have you cared whether an illegal alien is productive or not? Every time I see you, you are running around calling people racists for just mentioning ways of controlling illegal immigration. Actually I think Vicente Fox has more credibility than you do on this.

But I see. Let's just play this pretend game. Let's make up some feel good phony baloney "conditions" that will, of course, never be followed as an excuse to allow our country to continue to be trampled by millions of illegal aliens more than happy to get on the multi-billion dollar, taxpayer financed, welfare gravy train of America. And if they don't want to assimilate? Well let's not think “unhappy” thoughts. Let's just pretend that culture really doesn't matter and perhaps maybe it is the American Citizen to should assimilate to their foreign culture. Right VA?

758 posted on 08/24/2002 8:59:16 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: Sabertooth
Nothing good can ever come from rewarding criminal behavior.
759 posted on 08/24/2002 9:01:18 PM PDT by TJFLSTRAT
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To: Marine Inspector
In other words, you support an amnsty every ten years or so to legalize the crimes of those who have entered illegally and have been here for at least five years. We did as I remember have an amnsty about ten years ago that legalized all that came forward within a certain time limit, that had several extensions added to it.

Amnsty as history has shown, merely encourages more illegal immigration. Immediate deportation of illegals upon discovery and putting them twenty years behind those waiting to immigrate legally, if enforced, would properly deter illegal immigration.

I am not buying all the bull about immigrants doing jobs that Americans feel is beneath them. I see Immigrants flagging traffic at highway construction sites-American youth used to work these positions in summer to pay for their college education, as they did in all the construction trades. Young people erarned their spending money and often paid for their school clothes by doing farm work, from planting to harvest-they still would if the jobs were not already taken by full grown illegal immigrants. We need this flood of illegals like we need a hole in our heads, we are being conned, big time.

If the illegals from Mexico were truly seeking to become citizens of the country they are entering illegally, they would bury their dead here as did those before them. Have you ever noticed that in the event of a death among alien families from Mexico, that they always return the deceased to be burried in Mexico, and the whole family must go with them-funded by: Guess who?

760 posted on 08/24/2002 9:07:40 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell
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