AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[WRhine]

From his book, "A Charge to Keep": "I believe it is far more compassionate to turn away people at the border than to attempt to find and arrest them once they are living in our country illegally."

He's made similar comments during the campaign as he did when he pushed for the 245(i) extension, like "Family values do not stop at the Rio Grande."

Candidates running for president will utter more than a million words in the course of a campaign. The fleeting comments of a candidate at a few campaign stops will rarely be picked up by the media and heard by most people unless it is a major issue with the candidate. As someone that followed that election very closely I can tell you that Bush studiously avoided any mention of Amnesties for Illegals, or that he would do next to nothing in controlling illegal immigration. In fact when asked by a reporter about what his thoughts were on illegal immigration he said he would "protect the borders", which of course he has shown no proclivity to do so despite 9/11.

If truth be told conservatives such as myself were so eager to get rid of Clinton we no doubt overlooked some things on Bush that should have warranted higher scrutiny...at least in retrospect. I can tell you he won't get the same pass next time around and what he does in the next two years will play a pivotal role in how much of his original support he retains for the 2004 election. So far, the main driver of his national support is his fine work on the war against terrorism. Just about everything else has been quite a disappointment to anyone hoping for the least bit of reduction in the size and scope of the federal government and of course, a modicum of respect for this nation's sovereignty.

[WRhine]

get rid of Clinton

Should read "get rid of Clinton's Legacy"

[Pelham]

Um, I think you're quite mistaken about what the pre-1965 law was. But I'll give a point for effort, however off base.

[Pelham]

Hmm...

I say it's Mr Avocado in the Library with the Lead Pipe.

[Sabertooth]

In fact, had you even looked hard enough, you'd find that [President Bush] would NOT have supported Prop 187.

If you'd looked hard enough, you'd know Bush took time out from his Texas campaign in 1994 to speak against Prop #187.

Californians remember where the bodies are buried.

But I'm not going to back down from a fight with those who seem to think disagreement over an issue makes me no better than a liberal.

You still have no idea how big this issue is, no sense of the enormity of the problem, and no regard for how much worse your "solution" would make it.

The latter disregard is what is so characteristic of liberals. Perhaps that, combined with a willingness to ignore the lessons of past Amnesties so favored by liberals, is what causes the parallel to occur to people.

You also don't seem to grasp how unpopular Amnesty would be. The polls you cite only show that Amnesty isn't on people's radar right now. That would change dramatically if politicians ever proposed it.

That's why they don't.

[Marine Inspector]

The majority of 245(i) applications fall into the foreign-born spouses category. That was the original idea of that section, but in the end they added the employment based applications.

I think the restrictions make up for any bonding. If they have been married for 5 years, then it's probably not marriage fraud.

[Pelham]

Californians remember where the bodies are buried.

You're not kidding, 'tooth.

[Sabertooth]

The majority of 245(i) applications fall into the foreign-born spouses category.

Got any numbers or sources?

[VA Advogado]

You here to carry sabertooth's jock strap?

[Reaganwuzthebest]

And you should know by now that I do not back down from fights.

Just because you don't back down doesn't make you right.

No matter how hard you try, you cannot square your position on amnesty with the fact it's a democratic initiative. Not even Bush is calling for the kind of sweeping forgiveness of lawbreakers that you are. His main focus to date has been extending 245(i), but what you're advocating more resembles Dick Gephardt's proposal. I'm sure you'll come back demanding an apology and reassuring us you're the most conservative member on this board, but facts are facts, it's the liberals pushing to reward the border jumpers.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

To put it bluntly, I'm calling your bluff on this issue. Put up or shut up.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten the removal of Michigan Senator Spencer Abraham in 2000 specifically due to the immigration issue. He was targeted by immigration reform groups who pointed out his record to voters, who in turn decided his "bring in the world" policies were not to their liking.

If you think Republicans are invulnerable, no matter what their position on amnesty you are sadly mistaken. The election is two months away yet, and they have a slim majority in the House. All it takes is for a few to go down in flames, and they lose it all.

[sweetliberty]

You must enjoy the role of the skunk at the picnic. You play it so well. No need to bother with a reply. It is pointless to try to have an adult conversation with a child.

[LS]

I already voted: no amnesty. But increase legal immigration limits, as I outlined in my other post.

[VA Advogado]

We can have an adult conversation, just as soon as you stop leading the cheering section for Sabertooth(less) and come up with your own original ideas.

[Marine Inspector]

According to the Adjudication Officers here in the Phoenix district, that I have talked too, about 60% off this districts 245(i) applicants are foreign-born spouses.

The problem is, the majority of those got married within the time that the 245(i) extension was announced, so it is highly likely that the majority of those applications are marriage fraud. That’s why, in my proposal, the applicant has to have been married for 5 years, to cut down on possible marriage fraud.

[Twodees]

Yep, he's the illegal who's doing the work Mr. Mustard won't stoop to doing. ;-)

[Ima Lurker]

How "useful" can they be if they have already broken the law just to get here?

[Sabertooth]

After carefully considering all the rules you laid down for posting a comment, All that I found left to say was : I agree with you 100%, and that's all I really wanted to say on the subject anyway.

Jeepers, was I that bad?

If you change your mind, comment away... all I was trying to do was minimize the flames and encourage a civil tone.

Thanks for posting.

[Landru]

Q: "Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?"

A: No.

...next question.

[Sabertooth]

It could be that I am wrong. I hate when that happens. :)

One of the instances where hate is underrated.