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AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)
August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

Posted on 08/22/2002 7:04:53 AM PDT by Sabertooth

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
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To: mhking
Please, tell us, though, how you would prevent every Manny, Moe & Jack--excuse me, Tomas, Julio y Jose from getting on the horn the minute the amnesty comes down from on high (under your plan, of course), and getting all their relatives to run for the borders?

Good point. There is nothing to stop illegals already here from tipping off relatives to cross the border once the amnesty was passed. Bush has said already that his plan is about "reuniting families". I don't think we're ready for each illegal to bring 20 or so family members to a reunion here.

541 posted on 08/23/2002 4:18:39 PM PDT by Twodees
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To: wardaddy; Sabertooth; Twodees; WRhine; Reaganwuzthebest; FreedomFriend; Pelham; RLK; watcher1; ...
I'm not sure if all of you saw this when Sabertooth posted it back on 2/16/2002, so I'll make a link.

They Will Deport Themselves

The gist of this plan is to give all the illegals in our country 90 days to sell everything, they don't want to take with them, and return to their home countries.

All illegals apprehended after those 90 days would forfeit all.

I might add to that finger-printed, photographed and DNA sampled and never allowed to re-enter our country, ever.

Simultaneously, we enforce all existing laws on the books against employing illegal aliens.

Any American citizens caught hiding illegal aliens in their Las Vegas, Mormon missions will be imprisoned for no less than 20 years in the same cell with their so-called conservative brothers. Now, that's punishment. LOL.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

This should get the flow of illegals moving in the right direction.

I'd militarize the land borders and beef up the Coast Guard ASAP, as well.

542 posted on 08/23/2002 4:24:39 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: 4Freedom
All that's needed for Bush's open borders attitude to change is for all that Mexican oil to dry up. The deal with Fox would be off.

That could be right. I've also been thinking that Bush's dedication to this insane position of his has to do with advancing the cause of UN control over national sovereignty. I don't trust Bush. His family has a history of treachery in politics and he's too slick by half with his phony Texas accent.

543 posted on 08/23/2002 4:24:54 PM PDT by Twodees
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To: 4Freedom
Just ran into this story on another site, it could turn out to be quite important for the future of deporting illegals.

http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/prime/0822-127.html

Basically what's going on is a lawsuit by the federal government trying to deny Yaser Esam Hamdi American citizenship and Constitutional rights, even though he was born in the US to Saudis on a temporary work visa. If Uncle Sam wins at the Supreme Court level, children of illegals would NOT be automatic citizens by birth. That's a huge incentive for them to come here, and could technically allow the government to deport anyone living in the US born to illegals.

544 posted on 08/23/2002 4:43:15 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Twodees
Didn't Henry Kissinger just suggest that the President request for the U.N. put troops on our borders?

What a great idea. The U.N. has so many troops that are experienced in prostitution, drugs and weapons smuggling.

It wouldn't make any of that stuff harder to get, just more expensive.

Think Bush senior asked the Big K to make that public suggestion?

545 posted on 08/23/2002 4:47:25 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: Sabertooth
Immigration should only be granted when legally applied for and on a limited basis.
546 posted on 08/23/2002 4:57:49 PM PDT by snippy_about_it
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
That's great news. It's about time that ultra-liberal interpretation of the 14th Amendment was challenged in the Supreme Court.

I've never understood, for the life of me, how the liberals got away for so long with saying that this:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and the state wherein they reside.

means this:

All persons born in the United States are citizens of the United States.

Let's just throw out 53.57% of the rest of the language in the Constitution, if we don't like it.

547 posted on 08/23/2002 5:01:40 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: 4Freedom
LOL....when pigs fly. Islamists however could be in for a hard rain should a major cataclysm like a dirty nuke in Manhattan occur....that would trickle down to all aliens.
548 posted on 08/23/2002 5:28:09 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: 4Freedom
Should have said there's a lawsuit against the federal government regarding the Yaser Esam Hamdi case.

The 14th Amendment interpretation going on today is a strange one, if you read the intent of the writers it was never meant for the children of foreigners. Getting that fixed would be a huge victory since over 200,000 births a year at least are to illegals, most of them at taxpayer expense.

549 posted on 08/23/2002 5:32:15 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: 4Freedom; WRhine
You know, I do not care what you think. I do not care about your opinions. Your fearmongering is not going to change my mind, either.

Quite frankly, I think the two of you are bluffing. Nobody is running against Republicans because an amnesty program was proposed, and I don't know of anyone who has been defeated because they might favor a partial amnesty.

The Gekas bill has gone nowhere, even though he chairs the Subcommittee that the bill is assigned to. It's not even on the schedule. Heck, there are no meetings scheduled as far as I know.

You say you have 70-80% who want restrictions on immigration? I'm not impressed. The gun-grabbers say they have 70-80% in support of their agenda, too. They sure seem to hit a brick wall with the NRA every time.

I don't think enough people are going to switch their votes over this issue for you to do anything except complain. I don't see that anyone CHALLENGED Jim Sensenbrenner, Tom DeLay, or Henry Hyde for voting in FAVOR of 245(i) extension in the House, much less pose a serious threat to their re-election campaigns this year.

Your posts are, to quote Shakespeare, "sound and fury, signifying nothing."

If you think you can knock off a bunch of the Republicans who voted FOR an amnesty (roughly 40% of the GOP House members), take your best shot. I doubt you will succeed any more than Pat Buchanan succeeded in 2000.
550 posted on 08/23/2002 5:43:39 PM PDT by hchutch
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To: glock rocks
That is great! Did you write it?
551 posted on 08/23/2002 5:49:33 PM PDT by sweetliberty
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To: GmbyMan
"The vast majority of Mexican illegals will be back in this country within a month after being deported. "

Perhaps that would not be the case if we sealed off access to all the free goodies they stand to gain by being here.

552 posted on 08/23/2002 6:01:19 PM PDT by sweetliberty
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To: Sabertooth
1) NO amnesty for illegals ...
2) A concerted effort to apprehend and deport the lawbreakers ... and
3) Subtle pressure on the legal immigrants to assimilate and become American citizens (no Spanish ballots, for example). If citizenship is not attained in 5 years, revoke their legal status and deport them.
553 posted on 08/23/2002 6:13:23 PM PDT by bimbo
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To: hchutch; WRhine; Twodees; Reaganwuzthebest; FreedomFriend
Here's another Zogby poll for you to look at from 9/1/2001. That was just before the increased anti-illegal and anti-out-of-control-legal immigration sentiment caused by 9/11.

Zogby Amnesty Poll From 9/1/01

Some of what they found went like this.

"...60% of voters in union households oppose an amnesty and that 33% of all persons in union households said they would be less likely to vote for a Democrat who supports it..."

It pretty much went the same across the boards for Republicans, too.

Here's something else you'll find interesting.

"...51% of Hispanic U.S. CITIZENS are AGAINST amnesty!!!

Read the whole poll all the way to the end. It will tell you what questions they asked, who they asked and how they asked them the questions.

I know this can't compare to the kinds of opinions your brother shares with you from the Las Vegas Headquarters of the Chutch Brothers Mormon Mission Political Polling Place (that's a lot of Pee-z), but the rest of us will just have to make do with a scientific poll.

LOL!

554 posted on 08/23/2002 6:21:57 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: Valin
"Great I agree. Now who are they, and where are they, and how do we id they?"

There are a number of ways. The most obvious is that these people often have run-ins with the cops. They are asked for ID. They can't produce any. B'bye. Or how about when they show up to apply for their welfare benefits. Usually there's plenty of security on hand and a cop shop nearby. Call them. Or how about when they show up at the hospital for free benefits? Same thing. Or go to put their kids in school? Or cannot produce a SS# for an employer? They cannot live in a vacuum. Personally, I think the requirement of some of these documents is unconstitutional, but as long as Americans are required to be subject to producing them for everything from buying a car to opening a bank account to getting a phone hooked up or getting an eye exam, why the h*ll should illegals be exempt? It isn't that we can't locate and deport them. It is that we WON'T.

555 posted on 08/23/2002 6:23:55 PM PDT by sweetliberty
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To: 4Freedom
But how many will vote AGAINST a politician on this issue?

You have not answered that question.

To my knowledge, nobody is challenging Tom DeLay, Henry Hyde, Jim Sensenbrenner, or any of the 92 Republicans who voted FOR an amnesty. The only Republicans who did vote for this that will not be in the next Congress have RETIRED.

You can quote the polls all you want, but I don't see any of those who voted for anmesty being challenged over it, much less being in significant danger of losing a re-election bid over that issue.
556 posted on 08/23/2002 6:28:55 PM PDT by hchutch
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To: Sabertooth; VA Advogado
"Congratulations on posting the first hate-mongering troll-post of the thread."

My exact thought. Some people just can't resist. Usually the same people.

557 posted on 08/23/2002 6:31:47 PM PDT by sweetliberty
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To: 4Freedom
I think that poll is bogus. I'm a UAW member and I don't know anyone who believes, now or pre-9/11, in blanket amnesty.
558 posted on 08/23/2002 6:50:56 PM PDT by exnavy
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To: hchutch; WRhine; Twodees; FreedomFriend; Reaganwuzthebest
I just told you part of it. Zogby found that 33% of union households said they would be less likely to vote for a Democrat that supports amnesty. Were you too lazy to read the rest for yourself?

Just wait. It's still early, yet. The anniversary of 9/11 isn't even here. Alot can happen.

Let's see if there was something coming that James Ziglar knew about that made him leave.

Like this:

Rash of flight credential thefts reaches Midlands

or this:

Britain On Standby For Nuke Strike; Secret Plan to Evacuate Millions in Terror Alert

Who knows? Oh, that's right. I forgot about your brother.

559 posted on 08/23/2002 6:55:50 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: exnavy
You lost me.

The poll said 33% of union member's households would be less likely to vote for a Democrat that favored amnesty.

Da'Shill and No Heart just proposed a blanket amnesty. Didn't they?

560 posted on 08/23/2002 7:01:30 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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