AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[taxed2death]

NUUUUUUUMBAAAAA 3 No amnesty for illegals, I do support measured legal immigration.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Neoconservatives are tough on foreign affairs... anticommunism etc., but liberal on social policies.

You can't justify your position on amnesties, no matter how conservative you want to call yourself. If you care to take a look, it is Dick Gephardt who is proposing the latest giveaway. You want us to believe you're the bulwark of conservatism, trying to save us misfortunate lost souls from jumping off a cliff, while you mimic the talking points of the democratic party as it relates to illegal immigration.

You're not making me yawn, just the opposite, I'm standing up and taking notice because you're not alone, there's quite a few "Republicans" who think like you. And it's me who refuses to jump off a cliff with you.

[hchutch]

I'd be happy to combine the provisions of the amnesty with the provisions of the Gekas bill I'm for (I'd strike out four of the 50+ provisions there).

If we require those applying for the amnesty to prove they were in the U.S. prior to January 1 of this year (I'm open as to the specific date), it should deal with future Illegals to a large extent. And the additional INS agents can be used to start prosecuting employers hiring Illegals, or going after the folsk who smuggle people in.

And what is there to say that the additional Border Patrol agents wouldn't help clamp down on things as well?

I'm also of the opinion that it might not be a bad idea to modify the quotas - cut off the immigration from Arab nations and take the slots used for the Diversity lottery, and apply those to immgirants from Mexico. Plus, I'd also restart the bracero program that used to be in place before Ted Kennedy's 1965 Immigration law.

[spodefly]

Several on this thread have mentioned that there is no way for us to 'round them all up' etc. The argument is, as I understand it, that we are already too far gone, and there is no way to have all 8 million / 13 million, whatever the number is, leave the country.

I disagree with this. If we enforce the laws that punish employers for hiring illegals, and begin forceful, deliberate, and visible deportation of illegals that are caught, there will be a mass exodus for the borders.

There was a story on here a few weeks ago from (I believe) SE Asia, and I apologize for not being able to find it, where a country had cracked down on illegal immigrants, and their ports were swamped with illegals fleeing the country. Such an approach here may not rid the US of all illegals, but it would be a great start.

We are a nation of laws. We cannot accept and reward people whose introduction to our country began by breaking the laws that delineate our boundaries. It is damaging to the fabric of our culture, and it is a slap in the face to the millions of legal immigrants who have been welcomed in this country (now their country) exactly because they respect the law.

[Shooter 2.5]

I oppose all Amnesties for Illegals Aliens, in any form.

[hchutch]

I'm pro-life, for tax cuts, a strong Second Amendment supporter, for English as the Official Language of the U.S., against gay marriage and other special rights for homosexuals, for school choice (be it vouchers or tax credits), for strong tort reform, and strongly oppose racial preferences.

I admit to opposing term limits (keep folks like Hyde, J.C. Watts, Rick Santorum, and J.D. Hayworth in there for as long as possible), and I disagree with conservative orthodoxy on immigration. Other than that, I'm pretty right-wing.

You will understand, then, my request that you retract the "liberal Republican" comment.

[Sabertooth]

If we require those applying for the amnesty to prove they were in the U.S. prior to January 1 of this year (I'm open as to the specific date), it should deal with future Illegals to a large extent.

I mean this sincerely, I'm aware of no historical basis for believing this statement.

Did an previous Amnesty deal with or discourage future Illegals to any extent?

When people become aware that breaking a law will likely carry no penalty, won't they be more likely to break that law?

And the additional INS agents can be used to start prosecuting employers hiring Illegals, or going after the folks who smuggle people in.

Again, why can't they do it now?

Why is an Amnesty for millions of Illegals a precondition on your part to willingly enforce the law?

[Sabertooth]

If we enforce the laws that punish employers for hiring illegals, and begin forceful, deliberate, and visible deportation of illegals that are caught, there will be a mass exodus for the borders.

As I so often do, you've failed to take into account that common sense is kryptonite to political realists.

[Marine Inspector]

Since I'm working the night shift, I'll post this now.

Here is the only amnesty plan I would approve of, and since this would never happen, it is actually a moot point.

This would apply to aliens that entered the US illegally or overstayed his or her allowed time in the US and is currently in an illegal status, is married to a United States citizen (USC), and meets the following requirements:

1. The alien must have been married to the same USC for more than 5 years.
2. If the alien is married less then 5 years, then the alien can return to his or her home country and wait for a visa.
3. The alien must have never been convicted of any crime, including crimes in other countries.
4. The alien must pass an extensive background investigation.
5. The alien must have never used or participated in any type federal welfare program.

If the alien meets these three requirements, then the alien may adjust status to a permanent resident with the following conditions:

1. The alien may never become a United States citizen.
2. The alien is not eligible for any type of relief from deportation, if the alien commits a crime that makes the alien eligible for deportation.
3. The above two restrictions can be removed if the alien enlists and successfully completes (receives an Honorable Discharge) a 4 year enlistment in the US armed forces.

The unmarried minor children (under 18) of the above illegal alien would be allowed to adjust status also with the following restrictions:

1. The alien must stay in school until the completion of the 12th grade. If the alien drops out prior to graduating high school the alien may be deported depending on the circumstances.
2. The alien may never become a United States citizen.
3. The alien is not eligible for any type of relief from deportation, if the alien commits a crime that makes the alien eligible for deportation.
4. Restrictions 2 and 3 can be removed if the alien enlists and successfully completes (receives an Honorable Discharge) a 4 year enlistment in the US armed forces.

I'm sure some of you will disagree with this for one reason or another, and that's fine, we don't have to agree on everything.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Amnesty is the democratic party platform. Get beyond your cocoon in Virginia, and look at those states where large numbers of illegals are residing. It is the democrats who are doing everything in their power to make the lives of illegals easier. You're position is let's compete with the other party to win the votes of the lawbreakers. That is as ridiculous as the reparations claim because it's rewarding people who aren't entitled to it.

You may be a conservative on every single issue, but on illegal immigration you're the democrats best spokesman.

[spodefly]

... you've failed to take into account that common sense is kryptonite to political realists.

I wouldn't call them realists then ... common sense is anything but common apparently. I would be willing to bet you that illegals, upon finding employers reluctant to hire them and upon seeing deportations taking place around them, would have the common sense to pack it up and head out.

Nice thread, by the way. Thanks, ST.

[hchutch]

I think that the problem with a previous amnesty was a Demcoratic Congress that, as it did with the 1990 tax increase, double-crossed the Republican President (typical Democrat behavior, by the way), and which did not follow up on the measures that would have done the job.

That is why I'd combine that partial amnesty with the Gekas bill outlined in post 140 (minus the four provisions I objected to as outlined in Post 145). I'm for about 92% (48 out of 52 provisions) of what the Gekas bill calls for (if you want, you can count my increasing the totals as disagreement, but that one is probably to the right of the proposed legislation).

That would be my ideal immigration bill.

[WRhine]

I only disagree with four of the provisions in that bill. I'm willing to work for the other 48. I'd think a lot of people would gladly take 92.3% of what they want.

Gee I'm sorry HC but I guess I missed something here. I didn't realize that YOU were the sole arbiter of Gekas's own bill and will decide what parts of his bill will be passed and which parts will die on the vine. What a political dynamo you are! It's an honor to know a Freeper that has more influence over the legislative process than Gekas himself.

If you want a fight over less than 8% of the provisions ont his bill, then that's your decision. Personally, I'd rather see a coalition built on the 92.3% of the bill we AGREE on.

Thanks again HC for pinpointing the parts of Gekas's bill that are unacceptable to the American People of whom YOU represent and clueing us PEONS in on which parts of Gekas's bill are not offensive. You da Man!

[Black Agnes]

Thanks Saber! You're GrrrreeEEAT!

Vote if you haven't already guys!

[WRhine]

That is why I'd combine that partial amnesty with the Gekas bill outlined in post 140 (minus the four provisions I objected to as outlined in Post 145). I'm for about 92% (48 out of 52 provisions) of what the Gekas bill calls for (if you want, you can count my increasing the totals as disagreement, but that one is probably to the right of the proposed legislation).

Amazing! Bravo! Though 1% of a bill's provisions could drastically alter the effectiveness of a piece of legislation YOU KNOW EXACTLY how to put percentages on it. It's just brilliant how you apply the higher math concept of attaching straight percentages that give equal weight to every provision in the bill. I am in AWE!

[Twodees]

I can assure you that every single one of these open borders amnesty advocates would imediately become raving anti-Mexican nutters if W came out and said he hates Maexicans and that they should all be deported. Well, all of them except mr.Avocado, that is. That guy posted a diatribe from the SPLC as "proof" that anyone not willing to eliminate the Southern border is a dangerous neo-nazi/KKK/militia/conspiracy theory nutjob.

VA, tell us what Morris Dees says this week about the unbridled racism of invasion opponents.

[hchutch]

You seem to jump to a lot of conclusions. I've only pointed out what I could and could not support. I never said I was the arbiter of what legislation would and would not pass, nor did I ever say that I represented anyone but myself. I do talk with other people to find out more information, and I will mention where I get the information (such as the observations of my brother which you and others have derided).

Tell me, if someone you knew (friend or relative) had two years of 24/7 experience with a group of people, would you or would you not ask him for information about the people in question?

[Twodees]

Thanks, Joe.

[kennyo]

But what about the many illegals who have been here for years and have been hard working members in the lower echelons of our capitalist structure. I think there should be some way of helping them to assimilate legally, after thorough background checks, etc.

There is a way!Send them back to their native country ,along with the application forms for becoming an American citizen legally.