AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[Sabertooth]

Here is the running tally of the informal "Amnesty for Illegal Aliens?" poll through post #450...

1. Support blanket Amnesty - 2. Support partial Amnesty - 3. Support no Amnesty - 4. Did not state -

0 7 122 17

I'll update this periodically. If you've not offered an opinion yet, please feel free to do so. Or if you know people who haven't feel free to flag them here.

Thanks.

[MissAmericanPie]

I vote three, no amnesty

[jpl]

No amnesty. Over 200 years, the chant was "No Taxation Without Representation". Today, I believe our new chant should be "No Immigration Without Assimilation".

[Tuco-bad]

Absolutely AGAINST amnesty!

[eastsider]

No Amnesty

[hchutch]

And I corrected myself in post 477.

You can get an "amnesty" for just about any crime, by the way. Ever hear of reprieves and pardons? Both are provided for in the Constitution - Article II, Section 2, discussing the Presidency: "He shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."

The pardon power is more of a last resort, and he can also "recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient" (Article II, Section 3), which he is doing so in the case of 245(i).

In essense, Gerald Ford granted Richard Nixon an amnesty for Watergate. And President Bush (Sr.) granted amnesty to a number of people caught up in Iran-Contra.

That's my answer to your question.

[EBUCK]

I vote full amnesty on one condition.....military on the border with orders to shoot anyone that attempts future crossings.

I know that is a change from my previous position but I've come to the conclusion that it will be impossible to get the ones already here out.

So, here's my plan...

All illegals here now, one chance to gain citizenship. After that, if you're caught you're gone ASAP (all LEO's charged with this task). All illegals in our prisons...deported immediately to Southern Mexico. And of course, military with orders to shoot on sight on both borders.

EBUCK

[Carry_Okie]

OK, I didn't know you were running a poll.

No amnesty. Deport.

[Sabertooth]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but Free Republic has stood for the EFFECTIVE control of illegal immigration.

At similar risk, let me put this to you again...

You believe that we can't effectively protect our borders now, thereby requiring us to Amnesty however many million Illegals you feel is necessary.

If we can't protect our borders now, how do you propose we will effectively protect our borders from the next wave of Illegals that your Amnesty will attract?

[Sabertooth]

And of course, military with orders to shoot on sight on both borders.

That's some serious coffee you're drinking.

[EBUCK]

How did you know I was drinking coffee LOL. I'm also hopped up on some cold medicine...

EBUCK

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Oh sure, the big boys always give themselves amnesties, they know to save their rears.

What about the little people, you know like you and me? Can I commit document fraud, use other's SSN's, make phony green cards, sell drugs, things like that and get amnesties for it? Millions of illegals are doing that today who haven't been caught and would be amnestied if it were up to you. There's a whole industry that has sprung up around illegal immigration, including an underground economy where most of these people aren't even paying taxes, except for sales.

But if it were up to Hutch and his liberal Republican friends all that would be swept under the rug. A reward for breaking our laws. Nice legacy to leave our grandchildren.

[Dawgsquat]

Put me down for #3.

[hchutch]

I explained in post 244, but I'll repeat it here.

I'd double the number of additional Border Patrol agents (16,000 as opposed to 8,000) and the INS agents (4,000 as opposed to 2,000) in the Gekas bill.

Is that a suitable start?

[hchutch]

Liberal?

First I'm a neoconservative, now I'm a liberal? Make up your mind so you can get the aspersions you decide to cast straight.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Liberal = neoconservative. No difference.

[usadave]

At the very least, it is the beginning of a solution. I personally gain nothing from the flow of illegal immigration. That is, nothing except cheaper hotels, cheaper produce, etc...

Can you give us an example of prices anywhere in the U.S. that have gone down due to the fact that a company has switched to using illegal alien labor? Hotel chains lowering their prices on room rentals? Where? Grocery stores lowering their retail prices on produce? Where? As I see it, the savings that American companies realize by employing cheap illegal alien labor go into the company's own pockets and are not passed on to the consumer. Illegal alien labor = more profits for companies.

[hchutch]

*Yawn*

Oh, I get it... someone disagrees with the slightest part of the agenda, who isn't 100% on a certain issue is a liberal. I do not recall a time thwn Ronald Reagan, perhaps my favorite President (Bush Jr. comes a close second), acting in that manner.

Reagan, by some accounts, would be called a neo-conservative. If that's the case, I'm in pretty darn good company.

[Sabertooth]

I'd double the number of additional Border Patrol agents (16,000 as opposed to 8,000) and the INS agents (4,000 as opposed to 2,000) in the Gekas bill. Is that a suitable start?

Anything's a suitable start. What I don't understand is why you want such a huge Amnesty for millions before you begin augmenting our security at the border.

Amnesty rewards illegal behavior. Past experience and common sense show that Amnesty attracts more Illegals. Your problem at the border will get worse, not better, if you grant an Amnesty.